Guess the initiative that will pass eagerly, the flying tax!

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suomynona.yllatot
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Guess the initiative that will pass eagerly, the flying tax!

Post by suomynona.yllatot » Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:03 pm

So, as far as I know, and I hope I am wrong, I am guess the one "citizens initiative" that already sailed so fast and will sail with flying colours in the parliament would be the surcharge on aviation, also called the flying tax (news from YLE).

The blo0d-sück!ng "#€%&/()= support for the movement!!! No other initiative has ever met with that level of enthusiasm! Free money, when have the polish1t!ans ever let go! Damn!

No point selling mirrors in the land of the blind!
Last edited by suomynona.yllatot on Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.


Yep, it is! What's the big deal?

Guess the initiative that will pass eagerly, the flying tax!

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necadam
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Re: Guess the initiative that will pass eagerly, the flying tax!

Post by necadam » Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:34 pm

Öyh öyh...

Bensapää servattu. Oikein ja luonnollista.

Good that you will have to at least partly pay for the negative externalities you inflict.

suomynona.yllatot
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Re: Guess the initiative that will pass eagerly, the flying tax!

Post by suomynona.yllatot » Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:45 pm

necadam wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:34 pm
Öyh öyh...

Bensapää servattu. Oikein ja luonnollista.

Good that you will have to at least partly pay for the negative externalities you inflict.
I wasn't always like that. I believe that people are equal, ideas are not! But when there is the tendency to drown and kill out logically sound and rationally gentle questions, and when the notion is that the loudest voice is the voice of reason, I retaliate equally hard!

PS. Not too fond of the ex-missus- that is a strong proponent of Finland (she lives on their taxes), but me thinks if this comes into force, I'll stop paying for the kid and womans flight to come visit me as well! I honestly don't care!
Yep, it is! What's the big deal?

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agroot
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Re: Guess the initiative that will pass eagerly, the flying tax!

Post by agroot » Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:19 pm

I've been persuaded by Finns not to travel abroad especially not by flight - apparently it's a real movement now not some crazy talk I thought! :lol:

But train ticket prices are ridiculous and without cheap lounge access like priority pass food and drinks during the stops would be no less costly! I'm sure they could use the tax money to plant some trees and offset whatever CO2 I cause.

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network_engineer
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Re: Guess the initiative that will pass eagerly, the flying tax!

Post by network_engineer » Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:58 am

I disagree with this flight tax nonsense, and here are my reasonings below, I don't know how the others feel about this issue though!
suomynona.yllatot wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:03 pm
No point selling mirrors in the land of the blind!
This, sadly, I agree.

My points of reasoning (and the numbering is deliberate only in terms of a countdown, the points are equally important though)

6.1. This one is about equality. Immigrants (especially work based) to Finland have families outside. These are highly-qualified free resources for Finland (i.e. Finland enjoys their skills but has not paid for them, neither in education, nor heath, nor anything) . These people weirdly chose to make Finland their home.

For them, their 2-3 trips are NOT vacations lying on a beach somewhere, but an additional price they must pay to care for their parents and loved ones abroad - which Finland refuses to recognise as families if they want to bring their aged parents. What is their answer? Penalise the already free resources? Or should they leave? Slaves to Finnish taxation? Forced to abandon their parents? For a family of four, this means at least another 160-200e more!

6.2. If so, what about Finnish Emigrants? How will you force them to pay the additional tax on aviation (they buy their tickets elsewhere)?Did they make a better decision to leave? Or is it only immigrants that should suffer? Of course, they are "aito suomalaiset" so they assumably have more rights?

5. As with the parasitic politicians, once they get the taste of another's money, there's no going back. Who takes accountability and is willing to sacrifice and guarantee with their pensions that when the flights are no longer polluting (e.g. 100% electric planes or even solar) that this tax will be taken off?Case in point, the diesel tax (käyttövoima vero)! They are not trustworthy!

4. Apart from the small variety of food grown, most of the food is also imported (as are other items from metals to medicines), perishables coming by flights and ships. Both modes of transport pollute. What is the suggestion? Stop imports? Starvation? Point being: If these so-called proponents of the tax eat bananas, enjoy a glass of wine, eat grapes, heck, wear clothes made in China, why are they allowed to pollute through imports, but me flying must be taxed?

3. A lot of people travel for jobs. If work must be carried out globally, what is the suggestion? Fire the employees in Finland because they are expensive! Finnish jobs have already found their place in other countries, near and half-way across the world.
agroot wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:19 pm
use the tax money to plant some trees and offset whatever CO2 I cause.
2. Toilet paper is even used by the supporters of additional aviation tax. By the most conservative estimate, 27.000 trees are cut every day to make toilet paper. Why do they get to use toilet paper by cutting down trees when others must pay tax for flying? Why not force them to use water? Put a 3000% tax on toilet paper? PS. I like this idea myself. 3000% tax on toilet paper!

1. Why do Finns believe that Finland can save the world by taxing its own residents? Why is the first and last answer to everything money? I believe there is significant corruption in Finland, under the surface, but they've got their heads buried in the sand. That's what nationalism brings you. False pride and an unwillingness to even consider alternatives. There has to be a limit to their stupidity!

See, I am somewhat a theologian, and my doctrines are based on my reading of the Christian Bible. There was a time when the Israelites asked God for a king. And the reply was to know that the king will tax you to death, and use your sons as soldiers to fight his war. That has already happened. And gone further. Now it is every man wanting a piece of somebody elses money to elevate their thinking, some say give me tax for driving, the other says I'll tax you for flying, third says I'll tax you for eating meat, another says I'll tax you for sugar, another says I'll tax you for drinking alcohol.

There was a saying, mind your own business! Far from that. Man is a slave to other men!
Last edited by network_engineer on Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Marsh04
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Re: Guess the initiative that will pass eagerly, the flying tax!

Post by Marsh04 » Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:08 pm

This is what non-stop propaganda and brainwashing can do to you.
Some other examples of the achievements through brainwashing
North Koreans love their leaders.
Americans think taxes on the top 1 percent for the benefit of the rest of the 99% is communism

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agroot
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Re: Guess the initiative that will pass eagerly, the flying tax!

Post by agroot » Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:10 pm

Thanks for your great explanation network_engineer! I shall resume all my fly plans and restart shipping everything from Germany :D

tavastia
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Re: Guess the initiative that will pass eagerly, the flying tax!

Post by tavastia » Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:16 am

All propaganda, done by these organizations running on public money...

Valinnan vapaus
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Re: Guess the initiative that will pass eagerly, the flying tax!

Post by Valinnan vapaus » Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:08 am

I do hope that more laws of various kinds (and other kinds of developments) to control environmental destruction will be seen but you're speaking as if public tax money ends up in places it shouldn't on a grand scale? Whose corruption is it that leverages policy like this?

I've started buying more local foods as a result of all this talk, so good job bringing those other points up.

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network_engineer
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Re: Guess the initiative that will pass eagerly, the flying tax!

Post by network_engineer » Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:06 am

Valinnan vapaus wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:08 am
I do hope that more laws of various kinds (and other kinds of developments) to control environmental destruction will be seen
I have no problem with that. Concrete actions that actually define and mitigate environmental destruction at a *holistic level*. As a challenge, I suggested stopping the use of toilet paper, that takes care of the environmental aspect to a degree.

I was recently in a fad showroom, where all things were made out of renewable, i.e. wood... My question to the lady was simple: Does not that mean you've actually cut down good trees? And the manufacturing process? Does that not use fossil fuels? What about the varnish and stuff to make it look great? Remnants of fossil fuel products? So, only the core material is renewable, right? She wasn't very comfortable being quizzed on that in front of other customers.

I.e. this is what I call propaganda and pulling wool over the others eyes. A lot of customers suddenly seem to realise the question! Now I am NOT advocating for all cheap plastic imports from China. I am saying tell the truth! What makes one think that China won't soon catch up with "green products" at 1/4 the cost and start shipping them?

Why tax one item, and not tax the others? I.e. why are things hidden? As I had stated, why does one person get the benefit of eating a fruit/ vegetable not local, i.e. imported via flights. But others cannot fly even if the need is genuine (= flight shaming). Or be taxed higher than the banana! Anything the government can use as a propaganda to tax people (control people), now with that I have a problem.
Valinnan vapaus wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:08 am
as if public tax money ends up in places it shouldn't on a grand scale?
Least corrupt nation? It depends on the definition, doesn't it? As they say, there are lies, damn lies, and then statistics. We live in a world where with statistics, one can prove anything, a one-ended stick, or a square circle!

Sure, there isn't corruption at the road-side level, not yet. Seems to be catching up as a fad. The question is this: The taxes are ever increasing, the benefits are going down. Something's wrong. I've often been told it has to do with the increasing pensioners. But the challenge is that these are *pensioners*, their money is theirs and the funding is from pension fund NOT public funds. Another wise guy showed me a Finnish website on the disbursement of the taxes, the largest part went to the valtiovarain, i.e. the treasury. How is the treasury an expense?
Valinnan vapaus wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:08 am
I've started buying more local foods as a result of all this talk, so good job bringing those other points up.
That's concrete and as a matter of fact an individual choice, and a good one. I buy local where I can, but I am NOT paying local just because the local farmer assumes his product is gold. Finnish tomatoes at 3e/ kg and Spanish tomatoes at 1,20e/ kg. They need to be competitive. OTOH, I had a chat with a local business guy. He is taxed on everything... so a 500e bill does not mean 500e in his pocket! They are also vexed by the taxes.

Thinkers and challengers, that's what's needed! The opposite of courage is not cowardice, it is conformity.

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Oombongo
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Re: Guess the initiative that will pass eagerly, the flying tax!

Post by Oombongo » Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:36 am

Those servile and undesirable nincompoops favoring this tax never heard of fuel surcharge in airfares.

How will the extra cash be used? On technologies like Ocean Cleanup by some 25 years old dude or using it to fund the trips of 16 years old who really doesn't have any solutions and ideas, and doesn't dare scream at leaders from countries raking top in producing pollution.

What I would propose is to implement this tax on Finnair, take the data of those people who support this tax to see whether they'll use Finnair for their travels or their campaign is nothing more than a distasteful virtue signalling.
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betelgeuse
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Re: Guess the initiative that will pass eagerly, the flying tax!

Post by betelgeuse » Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:18 am

Oombongo wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:36 am
Those servile and undesirable nincompoops favoring this tax never heard of fuel surcharge in airfares.
The fuel surcharge goes to the airlines. It’s not a tax.

FinlandGirl
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Re: Guess the initiative that will pass eagerly, the flying tax!

Post by FinlandGirl » Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:09 pm

suomynona.yllatot wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:03 pm
So, as far as I know, and I hope I am wrong, I am guess the one "citizens initiative" that already sailed so fast and will sail with flying colours in the parliament would be the surcharge on aviation, also called the flying tax (news from YLE).
It would be more effective if the government would stop exempting flights from VAT.
For train tickets you pay 10% VAT on top of the price, flights have 0% VAT.

Upphew
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Re: Guess the initiative that will pass eagerly, the flying tax!

Post by Upphew » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:22 am

FinlandGirl wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:09 pm
suomynona.yllatot wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:03 pm
So, as far as I know, and I hope I am wrong, I am guess the one "citizens initiative" that already sailed so fast and will sail with flying colours in the parliament would be the surcharge on aviation, also called the flying tax (news from YLE).
It would be more effective if the government would stop exempting flights from VAT.
For train tickets you pay 10% VAT on top of the price, flights have 0% VAT.
Flights have 10% VAT in Finland. If you fly abroad then you'll likely have seen that even the shops near the plane advertise as tax free...
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Valinnan vapaus
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Re: Guess the initiative that will pass eagerly, the flying tax!

Post by Valinnan vapaus » Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:46 pm

I wonder what the conversion rate is between toilet paper pieces and water. If you skip the first, will you end up using more of the other?

On a personal level I try to make the most out of every piece, up to the point of tearing off just a small shred if I know that's all I'll need for something.


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