Any Tips for Moving to Finland?

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FinlandGirl
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Re: Any Tips for Moving to Finland?

Post by FinlandGirl » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:09 pm

fintel wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:17 am
Is it not easier to marry in Finland than marry in your favorite holiday country and then go through the entire court process to have your marriage certificate legalized?
This is completely irrelevant for the OP.

The question was how to get a marriage recognized in Finland that already happened one year ago.
Your claim this "marriage abroad has no legal meaning in Finland" is complete nonsense.
Your suggestion that this person should marry again is legally impossible. Your suggestion could bring serious legal troubles, you can destroy the life of another person by writing such nonsense.



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fintel
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Re: Any Tips for Moving to Finland?

Post by fintel » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:11 pm

jxjx2 wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:33 am
from my enquires and information from Migri, u can marry anywhere in the world you only need to legalize your marriage certificate and register it in finland.i understand this process.
Jane and Petri got married in Aruba because it was their favorite travel destination. They spent 100,000 eur on their wedding and a hired nice Aruba lawyer. Aruba wedding was their dream come true. They went back to Canada where Jane was originally from and applied for a resident permit to move to Finland at the Finnish embassy in Toronto. They were all so excited that they will finally be able to move to Europe. But their resident permit application was refused.

Aruba is not a Hague convention country and their marriage is not real.

Good luck.
Last edited by fintel on Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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fintel
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Re: Any Tips for Moving to Finland?

Post by fintel » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:16 pm

FinlandGirl wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:09 pm
fintel wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:17 am
Is it not easier to marry in Finland than marry in your favorite holiday country and then go through the entire court process to have your marriage certificate legalized?
This is completely irrelevant for the OP.

The question was how to get a marriage recognized in Finland that already happened one year ago.
Your claim this "marriage abroad has no legal meaning in Finland" is complete nonsense.
Your suggestion that this person should marry again is legally impossible. Your suggestion could bring serious legal troubles, you can destroy the life of another person by writing such nonsense.
You are nonsense. I don't even think you are a Finnish Girl. I think you are a rude ugly man behind a keyboard.

Also you fail to mention the Hague convention which is a list of countries from which marriages are recognized in Finland.

You assumed OP got married in a hague convention country. Your suggestion that all jurisdictions are the same is nonsense advice and can get the OP in a lot of trouble if he happens to be from a non hague convention country.

You obviously do not know anything about the hague convention countries or jurisdiction laws.
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FinlandGirl
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Re: Any Tips for Moving to Finland?

Post by FinlandGirl » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:22 pm

fintel wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:16 pm
Also you fail to mention the Hague convention which is a list of countries from which marriages are recognized in Finland.
This is not true.

Nigeria is not a party to the Hague convention, and it was you who stated that a Finnish court upheld that a marriage in Nigeria is recognized in Finland.

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fintel
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Re: Any Tips for Moving to Finland?

Post by fintel » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:25 pm

FinlandGirl wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:22 pm
This is not true.

Nigeria is not a party to the Hague convention, and it was you who stated that a Finnish court upheld that a marriage in Nigeria is recognized in Finland.
The court upheld the marriage and that doesn't necessarily mean that Migri will now start honoring ALL non Hague convention countries. If you were giving good advice, you would tell the OP about the list of countries from which marriages are accepted. If you wanted the OP to go through legal fires of hell, you would tell the OP that all countries are the same.

https://www.hcch.net/en/states/hcch-members

There is a Pakistani man on this forum whose marriage certificate from Pakistan was refused in Helsinki local office just last month, December 2019.
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FinlandGirl
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Re: Any Tips for Moving to Finland?

Post by FinlandGirl » Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:11 pm

fintel wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:25 pm
FinlandGirl wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:22 pm
This is not true.

Nigeria is not a party to the Hague convention, and it was you who stated that a Finnish court upheld that a marriage in Nigeria is recognized in Finland.
The court upheld the marriage and that doesn't necessarily mean that Migri will now start honoring ALL non Hague convention countries. If you were giving good advice, you would tell the OP about the list of countries from which marriages are accepted.
Everything you write is either wrong or irrelevant.
OP married a year ago.

jxjx2
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Re: Any Tips for Moving to Finland?

Post by jxjx2 » Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:44 pm

fintel wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:25 pm
FinlandGirl wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:22 pm
This is not true.

Nigeria is not a party to the Hague convention, and it was you who stated that a Finnish court upheld that a marriage in Nigeria is recognized in Finland.
The court upheld the marriage and that doesn't necessarily mean that Migri will now start honoring ALL non Hague convention countries. If you were giving good advice, you would tell the OP about the list of countries from which marriages are accepted. If you wanted the OP to go through legal fires of hell, you would tell the OP that all countries are the same.

https://www.hcch.net/en/states/hcch-members

There is a Pakistani man on this forum whose marriage certificate from Pakistan was refused in Helsinki local office just last month, December 2019.
im well aware of the hague convention and apostille stamp. but its all a matter of choice, either marry in finland or marry in your home country for example nigeria. and mind you, speaking of the nigeria man, marriages not conducted by the ministry of interiors but conducted by local governments in nigeria are not recognized by nigerian governments more or less to be even legalized by and registered in finland. so its possible the nigerian guy had his wedding conducted by a nigerian local government and not from the ministry of foreign affairs in nigeria and therefore encountered problems in legalizing his marriage. irrespective of the bureaucractic bottlenecks associated with legalizing the certificate in finland, it’s all a matter of choice affected by convenience, distance, possible visa rejections and travel expenses etc. nevertheless, few countries may find it even more difficult to pass the legalisation process or don’t even pass it atall for example pakistan, however most non EU countries including african countries, example is like that of the nigerian certificates if first legalised by the nigerian ministry of foreign affairs, and has gone through a special authentication process conducted by a separate independent body called VFS global appointed by finnish embassy in nigeria are therefore accepted by and recognized in finland. all of these still falls down to individual choice, so there is no point to argue about this.

[/quote]

jxjx2
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Re: Any Tips for Moving to Finland?

Post by jxjx2 » Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:57 pm

FinlandGirl wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:11 pm
fintel wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:25 pm
FinlandGirl wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:22 pm
This is not true.

Nigeria is not a party to the Hague convention, and it was you who stated that a Finnish court upheld that a marriage in Nigeria is recognized in Finland.
The court upheld the marriage and that doesn't necessarily mean that Migri will now start honoring ALL non Hague convention countries. If you were giving good advice, you would tell the OP about the list of countries from which marriages are accepted.
Everything you write is either wrong or irrelevant.
OP married a year ago.
and yes finlandgirl made a point to be frank..., my question isn’t about where to get married. i am married already a year ago and i don’t think i need to do that again. we married in my home country have kids, but not yet registered our marriage in the finnish population system. i wanted to know if it will affect me in anyway especially the resident permit process at some point.
[/quote]

betelgeuse
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Re: Any Tips for Moving to Finland?

Post by betelgeuse » Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:09 pm

fintel wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:16 pm
Also you fail to mention the Hague convention which is a list of countries from which marriages are recognized in Finland.

You assumed OP got married in a hague convention country. Your suggestion that all jurisdictions are the same is nonsense advice and can get the OP in a lot of trouble if he happens to be from a non hague convention country.

You obviously do not know anything about the hague convention countries or jurisdiction laws.
There is no requirement for the country to be a party to the Hague Convention (there are many but I assume we are talking about the one dealing with Apostille here [1]).

"Avioliitto, johon puolisot ovat menneet vieraassa valtiossa sen valtion viranomaisen edessä, on pätevä Suomessa, jos se on pätevä siinä valtiossa, jossa avioliitto solmittiin, tai siinä valtiossa, jossa jommallakummalla puolisolla oli asuinpaikka tai jonka kansalainen hän oli avioliittoa solmittaessa."

https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/1929/19290234#V7

If the country is not an apostille country, then legalisation has to be used. If legalisation is an issue in the country of issue, then the district court of Helsinki can be petitioned for a decision on the validity of the marriage in Finland.

"Helsingin käräjäoikeus voi hakemuksesta vahvistaa, tunnustetaanko vieraassa valtiossa annettu päätös Suomessa."

https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/ ... 4#O5L3P122

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Convention

jarikaija
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Re: Any Tips for Moving to Finland?

Post by jarikaija » Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:04 pm

fintel wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:11 pm

Aruba is not a Hague convention country and their marriage is not real.

Good luck.
Thailand is NOT Hague convention country either. Do you know what?
I'm married with my wife at Thailand. And our marriage is as real as ever can be.

Only an one little thing to do at Thailand (or another country too). Going
first to THAT country foreign affairs, where marriage paper will be legalized.
AFTER THAT, go to Finnish embassy at that country, that they proof legalization
by stamp. In this point, fin embassy will add your marriage for finnish maistraatti too.
Wait about 3-4 weeks. Whoa, you're married in legally at finland too.

If missing some points of that list, it is just stupidity or just didn't know, what
to do with all papers.

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fintel
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Re: Any Tips for Moving to Finland?

Post by fintel » Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:28 pm

jarikaija wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:04 pm
In this point, fin embassy will add your marriage for finnish maistraatti too.
Wait about 3-4 weeks. Whoa, you're married in legally at finland too.
Finnish embassy doesn't do this for everyone. I guess if you are black or African or something they just simply refuse you. Case in example the Nigerian man.

I will ask the members of this forum who have experienced this personally and should report here.
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Maeke
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Re: Any Tips for Moving to Finland?

Post by Maeke » Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:59 pm

[/quote]
... my question isn’t about where to get married. i am married already a year ago and i don’t think i need to do that again. we married in my home country have kids, but not yet registered our marriage in the finnish population system. i wanted to know if it will affect me in anyway especially the resident permit process at some point.
[/quote]

I can't believe such a practical question became the ground for a crazy fight between finlandgirl and fintel. And on this matter, sorry Mr or Mrs Fintel, but you were the one being aggressive and disrespectful. In a democratic debate, we can disagree without being disagreeable.

Now to the original question regarding the registration of kids and marriage prior to asking the residency permit. I would say ABSOLUTELY YES! And here is why :
1. In the application form, whether paper or through enter Finland, they ask for family members information and one of them is the personal identity code, or the last for letters for your wife and kids. If the kids are born in Finland, then they get their henkilötunnus at birth. If the kids were born outside of Finland, then yes, register them at the local maastrati where your wife lives first so they get their number which get transferred to their moms file
2. Same logic for your marriage. The RP form asks you if your marriage is registered in Finland and they will verify by your wife henkilötunnus. Without that step done, they will put a hold on your RP application until it's done. I was in the same situation as you (one kid, not twins lol). We got married in Canada in May 2018 while she was pregnant, she went back to register the marriage (yes, it took apostile, but don't worry, it's very easy to obtain, just few weeks delay). We waited until the baby was born in August 2018 then in January 2018 I applied for RP and got it in May 2019.

So basically, when your wife inputs her henkilötunnus in your application, the information should match the reality. If you apply before registering the marriage, in the eyes of Migri, even if you attach a scan copy of your marriage certificate, you are not married so they won't consider you as such.
Good luck. And don't worry, with your finnish wife and finnish kids, unless you have a criminal record, your rp is cast in stone. Just go through the steps the right way.

betelgeuse
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Re: Any Tips for Moving to Finland?

Post by betelgeuse » Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:17 am

Maeke wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:59 pm
We got married in Canada in May 2018 while she was pregnant, she went back to register the marriage (yes, it took apostile, but don't worry, it's very easy to obtain, just few weeks delay). We waited until the baby was born in August 2018 then in January 2018 I applied for RP and got it in May 2019.
Canada is not a member of the 1961 Hague Convention Abolishing the Requirement for Legalisation for Foreign Public Documents. This means that unless someone screwed up, you can't have gotten an apostille.
Maeke wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:59 pm
So basically, when your wife inputs her henkilötunnus in your application, the information should match the reality. If you apply before registering the marriage, in the eyes of Migri, even if you attach a scan copy of your marriage certificate, you are not married so they won't consider you as such.
This is not really how the Marriage Act works. See section 117.

"If the resolution of a matter depends on the validity of a marriage, a Finnish authority may determine the validity in connection with the resolution of the said matter, even if the matter of validity would otherwise be inadmissible under paragraph (1)."

https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/kaannokse ... 290234.pdf

Maeke
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Re: Any Tips for Moving to Finland?

Post by Maeke » Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:13 am

@beltegeuse,
Thank you for your reply.

This is copy paste from global Affairs canad, which is the equivalent of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs
''In Canada, the Apostille Certification process is referred to as Authentication and Legalization. If you have been asked to get an Apostille Stamp for your Canadian document, do not worry. Canada’s Authentication and Legalization process is the exact equivalent of the Apostille process, and is recognized by all countries who have signed the Hague Apostille Convention.''

So yes, i called it Apostile to not further confuse people but the logic was exactly the same: I got married, sent the original of my marriage certificate to our Capital city, Ottawa to have it stamped (legalized and authenticated) by Global Affairs Canada and then they sent it back to me. Then I sent it to my wife in Finland to get registered at the local maaistrati which she did few days after postal arrival.

So I talked to the lady at the Finnish embassy in ottawa (and not toronto like fintel said here) , and she basically told me that for the purpose of migri, 1) Either I registered the now 'apostiled' marriage to the local registry office (and in that case, Migri does not need the documents as they will see it directly)
2) Or I dont register and then for the purpose of Migri, I have to attach those documents as attachements in my RP demand. What she said is that althugh Canada is recognized as a 'safe' country, there is always a chance that my demand get 'audited' (she told me that once in a while a random file gets audited) and in that case, they might ask for the originals and it will only result in more processing time.

My wife and I decided to go with Option 1 and when i did my RP application, as i mentioned that the mariage is registered in Finland, I didn't have to attach any copy of the mariage certificate on enterFinland.

Just a quick practical advice for our thailand friend : I was always a bit worried with sending original documents overseas so if you do the same as I did, do not hesitate to spend few more $$ for certified services like DHL, UPS, Purolator. It costs more but it provides a great deal of peace of mind.

jarikaija
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Re: Any Tips for Moving to Finland?

Post by jarikaija » Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:47 am

Maeke wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:13 am
Just a quick practical advice for our thailand friend : I was always a bit worried with sending original documents overseas so if you do the same as I did, do not hesitate to spend few more $$ for certified services like DHL, UPS, Purolator. It costs more but it provides a great deal of peace of mind.
Did you mentioned me? :wink:

I didn't need to send any papers to anywhere. Neither my Thai wife.
I visited so many times at Thailand, that we do everything what
needed ourself and same at Finland. A lot Taxi, Motorcycle Taxi,
TukTuk, BTS ride at Thailand. Who cares, it is so cheap there,
that can use taxi every time when needed :thumbsup:

But... Thai post... whoaaaa.... :lol: Yes, with important papers
ALWAYS DHL / UPS if you want to be 100% sure.

Or if using normal post, then with tracking AND insurance (even for papers).
It will repel most of mail stealers. Worked fine every time, when I sent a different
things for relatives and companies...


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