Traveling to Finland as a family member during Covid-19

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inkku
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Re: Traveling to Finland as a family member during Covid-19

Post by inkku » Sun May 10, 2020 10:59 am

fintel wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 2:15 pm
muskrat wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 3:14 am
- Persons living continuously in a marriage-like relationship within the same household regardless of their sex are comparable to a married couple. The requirement is that they have lived together for at least two years. This is not required if the persons have a child in their joint custody.
What does NOT sound like an intimate relationship?

Living together with girlfriend part time at various Airbnbs.
exactly. what the OP describes (basically them to travel occasionally together in various places) is not what is described as an intimate relationship in the corresponding law.



Re: Traveling to Finland as a family member during Covid-19

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FinlandGirl
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Re: Traveling to Finland as a family member during Covid-19

Post by FinlandGirl » Sun May 10, 2020 12:10 pm

inkku wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 10:59 am
what the OP describes (basically them to travel occasionally together in various places) is not what is described as an intimate relationship in the corresponding law.
You are confusing intimate relationship with cohabitation.

Cohabitation requires the couple to have lived together for at least 2 years (or have a child).
This is what is being described in the law.
For immigration purposes cohabitation is equivalent to marriage.

Intimate relationship is for couples who have not lived together for 2 years.
In the law this is called "other grounds".
The residence permit on other grounds has less rights than the family permit, e.g. it gives only very limited right to work while living in Finland (this limitation also applies to work done online).

FinlandGirl
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Re: Traveling to Finland as a family member during Covid-19

Post by FinlandGirl » Sun May 10, 2020 12:18 pm

fintel wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 2:15 pm
What DOES sound like an intimate relationship?
What sounds like an intimate relationship to you personally is completely irrelevant when it comes to what Migri considers an intimate relationship.
fintel wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 2:15 pm
Have a baby together
This is not intimate relationship, this is cohabitation and qualifies for a residence permit on family ties.

inkku
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Re: Traveling to Finland as a family member during Covid-19

Post by inkku » Sun May 10, 2020 1:30 pm

FinlandGirl wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 12:10 pm
inkku wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 10:59 am
what the OP describes (basically them to travel occasionally together in various places) is not what is described as an intimate relationship in the corresponding law.
You are confusing intimate relationship with cohabitation.

Cohabitation requires the couple to have lived together for at least 2 years (or have a child).
This is what is being described in the law.
For immigration purposes cohabitation is equivalent to marriage.

Intimate relationship is for couples who have not lived together for 2 years.
In the law this is called "other grounds".
The residence permit on other grounds has less rights than the family permit, e.g. it gives only very limited right to work while living in Finland (this limitation also applies to work done online).
yes, sloppy writing/reading, actually I was confusing with "family member", what he discussed in his original post. He clearly does not fill the requirements spelt out there.

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fintel
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Re: Traveling to Finland as a family member during Covid-19

Post by fintel » Sun May 10, 2020 3:38 pm

FinlandGirl wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 12:18 pm
fintel wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 2:15 pm
What DOES sound like an intimate relationship?
What sounds like an intimate relationship to you personally is completely irrelevant when it comes to what Migri considers an intimate relationship.
fintel wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 2:15 pm
Have a baby together
This is not intimate relationship, this is cohabitation and qualifies for a residence permit on family ties.
FinlandGirl.

You are quoting me again, also acting like the FINAL AUTHORITY ON IMMIGRATION. You are NOT the final authority on immigration, let me be clear about that. I provide my own personal opinion here based on my life experiences. People can take it or reject it, it is their choice. DO NOT QUOTE ME.

YOU ARE RUDE AND MAKE TONS OF ASSUMPTIONS. DO NOT INTERFERE IN MY COMMENTS TO OTHER PEOPLE POSTS. UNDERSTAND?
Last edited by fintel on Sun May 10, 2020 3:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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fintel
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Re: Traveling to Finland as a family member during Covid-19

Post by fintel » Sun May 10, 2020 3:41 pm

FinlandGirl wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 12:18 pm
Have a baby together
This is not intimate relationship, this is cohabitation and qualifies for a residence permit on family ties.
Oh, funny how pregnancy is mentioned on the intimate relationship page of the migri website.

https://migri.fi/en/intimate-relationship
"A statement of pregnancy, if applicable, a certificate of pregnancy"

I guess being pregnant helps after all. When you are applying for a residence permit, you may give migri reasons why you think you should get a residence permit although you have not lived together with your cohabiting partner for two years. A weighty reason could for example be pregnancy or the fact that you were living together with your cohabiting partner but your cohabitation was interrupted for a compelling reason that did not depend on your partner. The Finnish Immigration Service will always evaluate whether the reasons you give make it possible to grant you a residence permit.

PREGNANCY is the key factor here to waive the 2 year cohabitation requirement for anyone applying for a relationship based permit. Otherwise you qualify for the normal family ties permit which requires cohabitation for a certain period of time.

(Note to FinlandGirl. Please do not interfere with my advice. You are clearly 30 years my junior. Do not reply to my comment).
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FinlandGirl
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Re: Traveling to Finland as a family member during Covid-19

Post by FinlandGirl » Sun May 10, 2020 3:58 pm

fintel wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 3:38 pm
I provide my own personal opinion here based on my life experiences. People can take it or reject it, it is their choice.
People are asking here for help with their problems.
This is not about opinions, it is about finding the best solution for a person.

Incorrect advice can destroy other peoples lives.
fintel wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 3:38 pm
DO NOT INTERFERE IN MY COMMENTS TO OTHER PEOPLE POSTS. UNDERSTAND?
You will not succeed with your attempts to bully me into staying silent when you are harming other people with incorrect information.

muskrat
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Re: Traveling to Finland as a family member during Covid-19

Post by muskrat » Sun May 10, 2020 3:59 pm

To be clear, my question was only about the current travel restrictions. It seems likely that I won't be allowed to enter Finland yet.

The residence permit is a different topic. According to the Migri website, the basic requirements for the Intimate Relationship permit are:

- You and your partner are in an established relationship and intend to continue your life together in Finland.
- You or your partner are not married to anyone else.
- You have secure means of support.

Whether pregnancy helps my case or not is irrelevant. :)
Last edited by muskrat on Sun May 10, 2020 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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fintel
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Re: Traveling to Finland as a family member during Covid-19

Post by fintel » Sun May 10, 2020 4:24 pm

FinlandGirl wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 3:58 pm
You will not succeed with your attempts to bully me into staying silent when you are harming other people with incorrect information.
FinlandGirl wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 3:58 pm
You will not succeed with your attempts to bully me into staying silent when you are harming other people with incorrect information.
This is not an attempt to bully. I use upper case fonts to make a point.

I do not want anyone to interfere with my CORRECT ADVICE.

You have interfered with CORRECT ADVICE on more than one occasion.

1. I advised a refugee who had FAILED in his asylum application, who has had two deportation orders against him and two judgements by the superior courts, had his family basis claim rejected, put on a plane and sent back to his home country, to not apply the third time. This was for his own good so he can find some other country and live a life of peace, BUT you disagreed and urged him to apply the fourth time and waste more time in the process. The refugee ended up taking my advice, not yours.

2. I advised a EU/Russian couple to fill out a certificate on no impediments to marriage and submit copies of their passports to the magistrat's office so they can get married in Finland. Standard procedure that all couples follow when getting married. You told them this was incorrect advice. They agreed to my advice in the end and did what was prescribed to them by me.

3. This particular thread was about a family member (US Citizen) being able to visit Finland during Covid 19 crisis to live with someone who he believes to be a family member. OP discovered he cannot board a plane without a resident permit and that he wants to wait a little more and explore the requirements of intimate relationship. You on the other hand told him that this is because the airlines think he might be a refugee and because anyone can buy a plane ticket and come to Europe and claim asylum. Then you stated something along the lines of refugees being shot at the Greece border and drowning in the Mediterranean sea. Completely irrelevant to the original topic.

6. The forum member "heretostay" was telling his story about how he had problems coming back to Finland through Heathrow airport during the COVID 19 crises and you incorrectly ASSUMED that he had a fancy passport from a top tier country, he corrected you that he doesn't hold such a passport and was only highlighting the fact that one needs a resident permit to board a plane during this epidemic and it was a difficult task.

Over all, your attitude is that "I KNOW EVERYTHING AND YOU KNOW NOTHING". Please stop interfering with other people's legitimate and correct posts here. My advice is correct on it's own merit.
Last edited by fintel on Sun May 10, 2020 4:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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fintel
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Re: Traveling to Finland as a family member during Covid-19

Post by fintel » Sun May 10, 2020 4:36 pm

muskrat wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 3:59 pm
To be clear, my question was only about the current travel restrictions. It seems likely that I won't be allowed to enter Finland yet.

The residence permit is a different topic. According to the Migri website, the basic requirements for the Intimate Relationship permit are:

- You and your partner are in an established relationship and intend to continue your life together in Finland.
- You or your partner are not married to anyone else.
- You have secure means of support.

Whether pregnancy helps my case or not is irrelevant. :)
You made it sound like you wish to come to Finland without a resident permit and claim family ties at the border and that's why this thread spiraled into exploring the requirements of an intimate relationship which you currently do not fulfill. Why do you think you qualify for this permit? If anyone with a European girlfriend was able to claim residency at the border then europe would be filled with boyfriend type migrants over night.
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FinlandGirl
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Re: Traveling to Finland as a family member during Covid-19

Post by FinlandGirl » Sun May 10, 2020 4:39 pm

fintel wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 4:24 pm
You on the other hand told him that this is because the airlines think he might be a refugee
This is a lie.

I am not going through all the other mud you are throwing at me, but I will continue to correct anything incorrect you are telling other people.

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fintel
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Re: Traveling to Finland as a family member during Covid-19

Post by fintel » Sun May 10, 2020 4:49 pm

FinlandGirl wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 4:39 pm
fintel wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 4:24 pm
You on the other hand told him that this is because the airlines think he might be a refugee
I am not going through all the other mud you are throwing at me, but I will continue to correct anything incorrect you are telling other people.
In short these have been Finland Girl's answers to some questions here:

FinlandGirl: Hey American boyfriend with sloppy writing that I cannot read correctly, do not attempt to board the plane to meet your girlfriend in Finland because EU prefers refugees drowning at the mediterranean sea. I want to correct her and say that the current requirement to have a resident permit to board a plane has to do with COVID 19 and has nothing to do with preventing asylum seekers to reach Finland and claim asylum. The idea here is that tourists are not allowed but citizens and residents are allowed.

FinlandGirl: Hey heretostay, you got lucky you were able to board a plane to come to Finland because you have a fancy passport. He did not have any such fancy passport and told you the BIG assumptions you were making. He has a resident permit and a not so fancy passport.

FinlandGirl: Hey refugee man whose claim has been rejected, 2 times by immigration and third and fourth time by a court, and deported back to his country of origin. APPLY AGAIN for a permit, maybe you will get lucky this time in your 15th application!

FinlandGirl: Hey EU man and his Russian spouse, do not submit copies of your passport to the magistrate's office because they cannot determine whether you can get married in Finland or not.

Wow, great advice. :thumbsup: :lol:
Last edited by fintel on Sun May 10, 2020 5:28 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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FinlandGirl
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Re: Traveling to Finland as a family member during Covid-19

Post by FinlandGirl » Sun May 10, 2020 4:51 pm

muskrat wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 3:59 pm
The residence permit is a different topic. According to the Migri website, the basic requirements for the Intimate Relationship permit are:

- You and your partner are in an established relationship and intend to continue your life together in Finland.
- You or your partner are not married to anyone else.
Based on what you wrote and how Migri usually handles such cases you should get the residence permit, but be prepared that you might have to wait nearly a year for a decision.
muskrat wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 3:59 pm
- You have secure means of support.
Note that the combination of "secure means of support" and "you are not allowed to work with this residence permit" means that you need the money as savings.
There are some very limited exceptions to the "not allowed to work" that will likely not help you, and you cannot run a business for earning money online since this would be work.

muskrat
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Re: Traveling to Finland as a family member during Covid-19

Post by muskrat » Sun May 10, 2020 5:09 pm

fintel wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 4:36 pm
muskrat wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 3:59 pm
To be clear, my question was only about the current travel restrictions. It seems likely that I won't be allowed to enter Finland yet.

The residence permit is a different topic. According to the Migri website, the basic requirements for the Intimate Relationship permit are:

- You and your partner are in an established relationship and intend to continue your life together in Finland.
- You or your partner are not married to anyone else.
- You have secure means of support.

Whether pregnancy helps my case or not is irrelevant. :)
You made it sound like you wish to come to Finland without a resident permit and claim family ties at the border and that's why this thread spiraled into exploring the requirements of an intimate relationship which you currently do not fulfill. Why do you think you qualify for this permit? If anyone with a European girlfriend was able to claim residency at the border then europe would be filled with boyfriend type migrants over night.
I agree that I won't be allowed to enter Finland now. I merely had a question about the rule and the answers in this thread have clarified the issue for me.

muskrat
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Joined: Sat May 09, 2020 3:01 am

Re: Traveling to Finland as a family member during Covid-19

Post by muskrat » Sun May 10, 2020 5:13 pm

FinlandGirl wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 4:51 pm
muskrat wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 3:59 pm
The residence permit is a different topic. According to the Migri website, the basic requirements for the Intimate Relationship permit are:

- You and your partner are in an established relationship and intend to continue your life together in Finland.
- You or your partner are not married to anyone else.
Based on what you wrote and how Migri usually handles such cases you should get the residence permit, but be prepared that you might have to wait nearly a year for a decision.
muskrat wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 3:59 pm
- You have secure means of support.
Note that the combination of "secure means of support" and "you are not allowed to work with this residence permit" means that you need the money as savings.
There are some very limited exceptions to the "not allowed to work" that will likely not help you, and you cannot run a business for earning money online since this would be work.
Thanks for the advice.

I'm prepared to wait for the decision. Migri states: "If you were in Finland when you submitted your application, you may wait in Finland while your application is being processed. You may wait in Finland even if your visa-free period of residence ends or your visa expires while you are waiting."

I also understand the right-to-work limitations and the need to have sufficient savings. :)


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