Which city is best for toddlers and our careers?

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IssoHappy
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Re: Which city is best for toddlers and our careers?

Post by IssoHappy » Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:55 pm

Heretostay and Oombongo, thank you so much for your thoughtfulness. Social unrest is high in the US and our bipartisanship is really causing serious social problems, it makes me a little stressed. So sorry I took Finland girl's responses so personally. I will speak to my husband, Heinz, about it. Our names are very German, so maybe we'll fit in somewhere.

My husband knows the ins and outs of brewery production and packaging and is extremely positive and hard working. He'd be a fantastic addition to any brewery in any country. He would enjoy learning as much as he would share.

We live in Michigan, just under Canada. Our state is full of thick forests, lakes, and "lumberjack" people. Often very conservative. Finland just sounded like a dream. A new culture, a country for outdoor activities and sports, and beautiful lakes. To me, learning about a new culture is everything and fills me with joy. I do quite a lot of art on the side and my husband has great construction skills. We also have a large vegetable garden and a few ducks. :0)

For us this would be an adventure. I will let my husband know that he is our best chance of moving. We are open to other countries. We speak a little German, so that suggest is much appreciated. Thank you! I will share all the information and contacts you have given me. :beer_yum: :thumbsup:

Thank you all again for being so helpful.



Re: Which city is best for toddlers and our careers?

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Oombongo
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Re: Which city is best for toddlers and our careers?

Post by Oombongo » Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:30 pm

IssoHappy wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:55 pm
Heretostay and Oombongo, thank you so much for your thoughtfulness. Social unrest is high in the US and our bipartisanship is really causing serious social problems, it makes me a little stressed. So sorry I took Finland girl's responses so personally. I will speak to my husband, Heinz, about it. Our names are very German, so maybe we'll fit in somewhere.

My husband knows the ins and outs of brewery production and packaging and is extremely positive and hard working. He'd be a fantastic addition to any brewery in any country. He would enjoy learning as much as he would share.

We live in Michigan, just under Canada. Our state is full of thick forests, lakes, and "lumberjack" people. Often very conservative. Finland just sounded like a dream. A new culture, a country for outdoor activities and sports, and beautiful lakes. To me, learning about a new culture is everything and fills me with joy. I do quite a lot of art on the side and my husband has great construction skills. We also have a large vegetable garden and a few ducks. :0)

For us this would be an adventure. I will let my husband know that he is our best chance of moving. We are open to other countries. We speak a little German, so that suggest is much appreciated. Thank you! I will share all the information and contacts you have given me. :beer_yum: :thumbsup:

Thank you all again for being so helpful.
Yeah, I'm surprised how divided is US these days, and I highly doubt it will ever be the same very soon.
Speaking of Michigan and proximity to US, I gotta ask out of morbid curiosity without asking anything personal; why not give a try to Canada? I mean, it is next to your backyard and mentally/culturally/lingually quite close to US compared to Europe. I know of a couple of dudes who moved away from Finland to Canada due to sheer possibility of career opportunities, and I presume they're doing well since they have no plans to return to this part of the planet. One of them loved by Amazon so much that they literally abducted him, and his paperwork was expedited. :mrgreen:
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rinso
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Re: Which city is best for toddlers and our careers?

Post by rinso » Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:45 am

He'd be a fantastic addition to any brewery in any country.
That may be true, but the problem is finding the company that needs him.
Companies are not willing to reshuffle their organization to make room for a highly skilled foreigner who doesn't speak the language.
Although nothing is impossible, finding jobs is the main obstacle in your plans. Like others said; widen your search also to other countries.

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ajdias
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Re: Which city is best for toddlers and our careers?

Post by ajdias » Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:08 am

Some comments:
* Is something like betterhelp /remote work a real possibility for you? You could explore doing that temporarily as a way to gain entry into the system - others may advise how being self-employed works regarding immigration.

* I heard of at least a couple of therapists working in foreign languages. Not sure how niche and small their market is, though. In Helsinki area.

* Is there a way for you to do a program abroad in the EU and get your degree recognized first there and then here? Say in Eire or, since you speak spanish, Sp.

*Americans can get some reactions here, just by virtue of their accent and nationality, depending on their ability to interact tactfully, and who sits in the white house.

* Many years ago someone (karhu?) wrote here that foreigners in Finland tend to either pull above their weight (a rather small minority) or much below, for the majority. The ones who succeed tend to either have skills on demand or exception networking abilities. It is wise to be prepared for both cases.

* This board is full of posts of people who drunk Finland's "kool-aid", and move here permanently without ever exploring the other side of the picture. These are the same people that months or years late come back disparaging Finland and Finns, and what a horrible place. They are the type that read that Finns are very honest (in reality they behave more honestly, aren't necessarily more honest), blindly trust finnish online sellers in facebook groups, and when their are conned blame Finland and Finns instead of their own naivety. To be clear, it does not look like this is your case, otherwise I would not be bothering to reply to you.

*Schools can be better for some objectives (and depending where you live, socio economic status, even gender) but they aren't noticeably better than good schools in nearby countries and some argue may not prepare kids for excellence (and I don't mean this in a tiger mom kind of way.) Finnish schools are def overhyped.

FinlandGirl
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Re: Which city is best for toddlers and our careers?

Post by FinlandGirl » Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:09 pm

ajdias wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:08 am
* Is something like betterhelp /remote work a real possibility for you? You could explore doing that temporarily as a way to gain entry into the system - others may advise how being self-employed works regarding immigration.
Residence Permits are not granted for remote work, you need a valid reason why you have to move to Finland.
ajdias wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:08 am
*Schools can be better for some objectives (and depending where you live, socio economic status, even gender) but they aren't noticeably better than good schools in nearby countries and some argue may not prepare kids for excellence (and I don't mean this in a tiger mom kind of way.) Finnish schools are def overhyped.
Finnish schools are very good at ensuring that no child is worse or better than the other children, and differences between schools are small.
It is a huge strength that every child reaches at least a pretty high minimum level.
Most of the hype comes from people abroad who are only reading the headlines without understanding why Finnish schools are good.

IssoHappy
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Re: Which city is best for toddlers and our careers?

Post by IssoHappy » Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:00 am

[/quote]

Yeah, I'm surprised how divided is US these days, and I highly doubt it will ever be the same very soon.
Speaking of Michigan and proximity to US, I gotta ask out of morbid curiosity without asking anything personal; why not give a try to Canada?
[/quote]

Yes. I have been to Canada and loved it. I have some family from Canada, they love it. I could still have the opportunity to learn a new language, French, in some regions.

US is divided politically. It is hard to even talk about politics because there is so much social unrest. It's depressing and somewhat threatening. I speak out on my beliefs and there can be some serious backlash from people who do not agree with me. People have felt this way for a long time, but now social media and other forms of communication have allowed people to voice their opinions openly and broadly and it is causing a lot of painful divisiveness. I have one grandparent left, my parents are still working, and I feel now is the best time to explore the world.


Thank you again :D <3 :beer_yum:

betelgeuse
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Re: Which city is best for toddlers and our careers?

Post by betelgeuse » Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:20 pm

FinlandGirl wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:09 pm
ajdias wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:08 am
* Is something like betterhelp /remote work a real possibility for you? You could explore doing that temporarily as a way to gain entry into the system - others may advise how being self-employed works regarding immigration.
Residence Permits are not granted for remote work, you need a valid reason why you have to move to Finland.
What is the legal basis for this? I have not seen anywhere a requirement that clients would have to be Finnish. In any case if done through an employment permit with a willing employer, details about clients are not even part of the process.

FinlandGirl
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Re: Which city is best for toddlers and our careers?

Post by FinlandGirl » Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:16 pm

betelgeuse wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:20 pm
FinlandGirl wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:09 pm
ajdias wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:08 am
* Is something like betterhelp /remote work a real possibility for you? You could explore doing that temporarily as a way to gain entry into the system - others may advise how being self-employed works regarding immigration.
Residence Permits are not granted for remote work, you need a valid reason why you have to move to Finland.
What is the legal basis for this? I have not seen anywhere a requirement that clients would have to be Finnish. In any case if done through an employment permit with a willing employer, details about clients are not even part of the process.
You are talking about employment, ajdias was talking about being self-employed.

A Finnish employer offering employment with a guaranteed salary is a different Residence Permit application.

betelgeuse
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Re: Which city is best for toddlers and our careers?

Post by betelgeuse » Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:15 pm

FinlandGirl wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:16 pm
betelgeuse wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:20 pm
FinlandGirl wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:09 pm
Residence Permits are not granted for remote work, you need a valid reason why you have to move to Finland.
What is the legal basis for this? I have not seen anywhere a requirement that clients would have to be Finnish. In any case if done through an employment permit with a willing employer, details about clients are not even part of the process.
You are talking about employment, ajdias was talking about being self-employed.

A Finnish employer offering employment with a guaranteed salary is a different Residence Permit application.
I first talked about entrepreneur permits and then referenced employment category. So to repeat, what is the legal basis for entrepreneur permits to require clients to be Finnish?

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agroot
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Re: Which city is best for toddlers and our careers?

Post by agroot » Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:35 am

Oombongo wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:37 pm
Then comes salary part. Say, If someone coming from US is going to ask 100k for senior position in Finland then he will be laughed at. Have a read here:

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-IT-salari ... in-Finland

..............

Check Germany or even Sweden for instance. Language is comparatively easier.

Others have pictured a reality without any sweet talk. Seriously, reality is grim and cruel, and it is exacerbated during covid months.
It's not entirely true.

Salary in Germany and Sweden isn't much higher, at least not pre-tax level. From my own searches, for senior professionals it's much lower in the whole EU than US, except Switzerland, but seems higher for junior levels (and companies aren't recruiting many of those :lol:). The gap between junior and senior especially post-tax is very small.

But it's not unfair if you consider actual work hours and level of stress. After over a year I still find it weird that people would just go to other departments for hours long chat.

OP will need some adjustment for sure.

Valinnan vapaus
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Re: Which city is best for toddlers and our careers?

Post by Valinnan vapaus » Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:05 pm

toystory wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:02 pm
FinlandGirl hates Americans. In another post she told "paintballsean" (another american user) that he is not entitled to Finnish residency because he feels persecuted in his country and discouraged him from moving to Finland.

She has also indicated elsewhere that when America drops a bomb on Iraq, Finland has to suffer the consequences because people flee war and hoards of asylum seekers come running to Finland's shore from the middle east burdening their economy.

If you try and argue with her too much, she will have you banned on this group. There is certain bias on this forum that allows her negative and rude behavior to continue and the moderators do not challenge her on this.
I've just read a part of that thread with that paintball guy. I can see FinlandGirl is giving you all a free reality check. She is not being negative. She is being extremely helpful, and for free. As she says, the Finland hype is in part because of shallow journalism. This board really seems to be full of people getting upset because they had too high, or the wrong, expectations.

Everyone hates an ignoramus. If you don't think you had any of the false beliefs she is talking about, that's great and you have no reason to get upset. You'll find platitudes are not so much a part of Finnish culture as e.g. the American. We tend to be fairly business-like in our communication, which is not the same as unfriendly. Just another thing to get used to.

The only reason I'm not bringing up the AFP topic (American Foreign Policy deserves an abbreviation of its own) is it may be off-topic here. I repeat, everyone hates an ignoramus. The United States of America is an easy country to be an ignoramus in.

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rinso
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Re: Which city is best for toddlers and our careers?

Post by rinso » Sun Aug 16, 2020 2:55 pm

toystory wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 2:14 pm
These comments to me sound like FinlandGirl does not want IssoHappy to move to Finland by referring to the possibility of becoming an illegal alien in about 90 days. Asking questions like why you want to move there in the first place etc? And to not expect preferential treatment. The tone of her message is very clear, it is unwelcoming and prejudicial. I personally do not refer to anyone as an "illegal alien" or point to the possibility of becoming one in future. Most people who post questions here are wise enough to not break the law and become illegals.
The posts of Finlandgirl are matter of fact posts, no judgement but a warning against wrong expectations. And yes, "illigal alien" is the translation of the legal term.
Having lived in USA for more than 10 years, I can tell you that there is a LOT of poverty in United States and most people are working class people and work hard to earn their living. They do not receive handouts or stimulus checks from the government like people do in Finland. Healthcare in America is not free. There is no subsidized housing. Hungry and homeless in America? There is no unemployment benefit. There is no shelter. You are lucky to get food stamps. Life is generally more difficult and demands consistent hard work.
Many people hear stories about how good life in Finland is. And they want to come, to escape the situations you just discribed. But most of them will be in for a culture shock and a huge dissapointment. Life in Finland can be good but it requires the right attitude. A warning against to high expectations is i.m.h.o. an act of kindness.

The posts of Finlandgirl lack compassion, but that is not an uncommen attitude in Finland. Interpret them as information, not as a personal attack.

Valinnan vapaus
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Re: Which city is best for toddlers and our careers?

Post by Valinnan vapaus » Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:13 am

toystory wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 2:14 pm
>>> FinlandGirl replied:
>>> You are allowed to stay for 3 months as tourists before becoming illegal aliens.
>>> Why do you want to move to a country you have never visited?
>>> If you expect preferential treatment due to your citizenship you will be disappointed.

These comments to me sound like FinlandGirl does not want IssoHappy to move to Finland by referring to the possibility of becoming an illegal alien in about 90 days. Asking questions like why you want to move there in the first place etc? And to not expect preferential treatment. The tone of her message is very clear, it is unwelcoming and prejudicial. I personally do not refer to anyone as an "illegal alien" or point to the possibility of becoming one in future. Most people who post questions here are wise enough to not break the law and become illegals.

Also there is an underlying perception here that as an American you are somehow more privileged and have some expectations that you will be treated better than others. Having lived in USA for more than 10 years, I can tell you that there is a LOT of poverty in United States and most people are working class people and work hard to earn their living. They do not receive handouts or stimulus checks from the government like people do in Finland. Healthcare in America is not free. There is no subsidized housing. Hungry and homeless in America? There is no unemployment benefit. There is no shelter. You are lucky to get food stamps. Life is generally more difficult and demands consistent hard work. If anyone expects ZERO preferential treatment from others, it is probably the Americans.
Again, if you don't think whatever she says applies to you, that's great! Don't assume she doesn't have a reason to be saying those things though. And don't assume that reason has to be irrational hatred. Like someone said, "illegal alien" is a legal term, not a subjective opinion.

We know about your !"#¤% social welfare and social inequality. We've seen all the Michael Moore documentaries for starters. It doesn't seem easy, for sure. In a sense that makes you all the more vulnerable to getting out the frying pan and into the fire, though, as you'd be particularly eager to look for domicile elsewhere. Any information that you can gain about where exactly you would be the happiest to move, and where people would be the happiest to see you specifically moving there, with your particular abilities and personality, IS HUGELY IMPORTANT. Because of the hype, Finland is possibly the most "overrated" country, and so being a Debbie Downer falls upon us here more than many other places. You're still not taking in the reality of what many immigrants (the refugees) are used to in their home countries BTW. And that's the kind we see the most of.

We are not, by and large, anti-immigration. We have a worker deficit in some sectors as much as any aging first-world country.

It is also more difficult to give tailored information to each individually. I.e. which brewery could hire the OP's husband. She is free to ask, of course, but she'd have to be very lucky to even run into anyone who knows anyone. Contacting the companies directly is by far the best bet. The therapy I don't know how to even get started with. Like someone said, her qualifications may not be accepted here, but I'm also wondering why she couldn't do remote sessions with non-Finnish clients. So long as she pays her taxes to Finland, why would Finland have anything against that?

I guess you could think of it this way: If I told you "Hey, I wanna move to the USA. I'm a therapist and my husband can brew stuff. What's the best city for us to move into", would you REALLY be able to answer that? Presumably the best city to move into is the city that has the brewery that you have a work contract signed with.

inkku
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Re: Which city is best for toddlers and our careers?

Post by inkku » Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:22 am

Guys, the OP posted a legitimate question, no need to be judgemental and aggressive. if you want to rant against each other's opinion, start your own boxing thread. It is highly impolite to highjack a thread for producing irrelevant, negative rubbish.

Valinnan vapaus
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Re: Which city is best for toddlers and our careers?

Post by Valinnan vapaus » Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:46 pm

inkku wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:22 am
Guys, the OP posted a legitimate question, no need to be judgemental and aggressive. if you want to rant against each other's opinion, start your own boxing thread. It is highly impolite to highjack a thread for producing irrelevant, negative rubbish.
What are you smoking... or not smoking?


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