Life with children in Finland vs. Sweden/Austria/Germany

Family life in Finland from kindergartens, child education, language schooling and everyday life. Share information and experiences. Network with other families.
Mizu1993
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Re: Life with children in Finland vs. Sweden/Austria/Germany

Post by Mizu1993 » Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:54 pm

So many people already replied here, but I will say it from my point of few again:
Good thing in Finland is safety. I feel definately more safer here than in Austria. The climate is a bit meh, I can't cope with the sun being there the entire summer. People say you get used to it, but not really. Again, health care is just, comparing with Austria and Finland, super bad in Finland. Many people struggle with mental problems and depression here. If you need help, it is very hard to get help, unless you open your pockets, but most of us don't have so much money. Everything is much more expensive, but from my experience so far, there are more money supports from the government than from Austria. There are various things you can apply and get quite good money without basically doing anything. I have read you don't know the language, so if you come here and be unemployed, the worker office (in Austria AMS, in Finland TE) will force you to go to language courses, chosen by them, unless you get quickly a job (which I doubt). Finland is also quite racist country, because I don't speak much finnish myself, there has been a few cases which were not pleasent. And you will be always in a "lower" than a finnish person, unless you speak finnish and look finnish enough. Since you want to move here, you need a reason why to come here. Most people come for family reunite. Since you are from EU, it is a bit easier, but you can't just come to live here because you want to. You need a place to study before coming here or work or if you have a family member here. Jobs are possible to get in english, but it all depends on the career too. I wouldn't say it is easy to get an english speaking job, unless you want to work for Wolt and Foodora. Nice things here are also, you can do a lot online, not everything, but a lot. Especially due Coronavirus, it has even gotten more online now. LiveChats are really nice if the office offers it and many do. Do not believe that Finland is the happiest country in the world, because that is just not true.



Re: Life with children in Finland vs. Sweden/Austria/Germany

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Spucks
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Re: Life with children in Finland vs. Sweden/Austria/Germany

Post by Spucks » Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:17 pm

Mizu1993 wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:54 pm
So many people already replied here, but I will say it from my point of few again:
Good thing in Finland is safety. I feel definately more safer here than in Austria. The climate is a bit meh, I can't cope with the sun being there the entire summer. People say you get used to it, but not really. Again, health care is just, comparing with Austria and Finland, super bad in Finland. Many people struggle with mental problems and depression here. If you need help, it is very hard to get help, unless you open your pockets, but most of us don't have so much money. Everything is much more expensive, but from my experience so far, there are more money supports from the government than from Austria. There are various things you can apply and get quite good money without basically doing anything. I have read you don't know the language, so if you come here and be unemployed, the worker office (in Austria AMS, in Finland TE) will force you to go to language courses, chosen by them, unless you get quickly a job (which I doubt). Finland is also quite racist country, because I don't speak much finnish myself, there has been a few cases which were not pleasent. And you will be always in a "lower" than a finnish person, unless you speak finnish and look finnish enough. Since you want to move here, you need a reason why to come here. Most people come for family reunite. Since you are from EU, it is a bit easier, but you can't just come to live here because you want to. You need a place to study before coming here or work or if you have a family member here. Jobs are possible to get in english, but it all depends on the career too. I wouldn't say it is easy to get an english speaking job, unless you want to work for Wolt and Foodora. Nice things here are also, you can do a lot online, not everything, but a lot. Especially due Coronavirus, it has even gotten more online now. LiveChats are really nice if the office offers it and many do. Do not believe that Finland is the happiest country in the world, because that is just not true.
Thank you!
Is Finland really more rascist than Austria? I assumed it was the other way round.

Btw: I do NOT plan to move anywhere without a job. So whether it will be Finland or another country, I will only move if I've found a job first!

Upphew
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Re: Life with children in Finland vs. Sweden/Austria/Germany

Post by Upphew » Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:00 pm

Spucks wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:17 pm
Is Finland really more rascist than Austria? I assumed it was the other way round.
Yup: https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/finl ... s/10531670
http://google.com http://translate.google.com http://urbandictionary.com
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Mizu1993
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Re: Life with children in Finland vs. Sweden/Austria/Germany

Post by Mizu1993 » Thu Mar 25, 2021 3:34 pm

Spucks wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:17 pm
Mizu1993 wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:54 pm
So many people already replied here, but I will say it from my point of few again:
Good thing in Finland is safety. I feel definately more safer here than in Austria. The climate is a bit meh, I can't cope with the sun being there the entire summer. People say you get used to it, but not really. Again, health care is just, comparing with Austria and Finland, super bad in Finland. Many people struggle with mental problems and depression here. If you need help, it is very hard to get help, unless you open your pockets, but most of us don't have so much money. Everything is much more expensive, but from my experience so far, there are more money supports from the government than from Austria. There are various things you can apply and get quite good money without basically doing anything. I have read you don't know the language, so if you come here and be unemployed, the worker office (in Austria AMS, in Finland TE) will force you to go to language courses, chosen by them, unless you get quickly a job (which I doubt). Finland is also quite racist country, because I don't speak much finnish myself, there has been a few cases which were not pleasent. And you will be always in a "lower" than a finnish person, unless you speak finnish and look finnish enough. Since you want to move here, you need a reason why to come here. Most people come for family reunite. Since you are from EU, it is a bit easier, but you can't just come to live here because you want to. You need a place to study before coming here or work or if you have a family member here. Jobs are possible to get in english, but it all depends on the career too. I wouldn't say it is easy to get an english speaking job, unless you want to work for Wolt and Foodora. Nice things here are also, you can do a lot online, not everything, but a lot. Especially due Coronavirus, it has even gotten more online now. LiveChats are really nice if the office offers it and many do. Do not believe that Finland is the happiest country in the world, because that is just not true.
Thank you!
Is Finland really more rascist than Austria? I assumed it was the other way round.

Btw: I do NOT plan to move anywhere without a job. So whether it will be Finland or another country, I will only move if I've found a job first!
As Upphew said too, yes it is more racist. There are many cases, I can tell you a few.
If you don't speak the language, it is getting hard. Once I tried to order in the store some meatballs and mashed potatoes in english. That didn't go well. The lady did not want to give me the food. Then another person came and saw that she is denying to hand me the food. This person helped out then. Since then I am not going there anymore, even though it is the closest K market in this area. Once I ordered food in Hesburger with my broken finnish. I might have said it correctly, but with accent, so again, I got denied to get food and the same thing happened again. I was also thrown out of the bus twice. Once there were 2 old ladies and I was traveling with my baby and my finnish boyfriend. He didn't say anything, but the one lady got really angry because of something. The other lady defended us, but then stepped out of the bus because she couldn't handle it anymore. At the same bus stop, the bus driver came to me and I said, "I have no idea what is going on". His reply was "You are making trouble, so I have to remove you from the bus", which he did. Another time I was removed from the bus, because my toddler was crying in the bus, though I tried to calm my daughter down, but didn't work, so basically same happened again. If someone comes to you and you say, you don't speak finnish, it mostly goes well, but in some cases, it just doesn't. I have also heard from a black woman, that she got forcefully removed from the train and that police even beat her up and she posted the story all over the finnish facebook group. I have heard some stories from people who have color (meaning mostly dark skinned people), who have a lot of problems here with racism. As a foreigner, it is very hard to get a job you want. Most foreigners have to work for delivery services. If you work in IT, that is the best, but if you don't, then cleaning and delivery service is left, with low income as well. As for me, I look quite finnish, but when I open my mouth, finnish doesn't come out, and obviously that is a problem. But as I said, most people are nice, but not all of them. And Finland is more known to be a racist country, probably Top 3 of the most racist countries in Europe.

But also what I want to add to the main topic: Finnish apartments are crap. You can hear everything and most walls are like paper. You hear neighbors talking, trampling around, eating, everything. Austria has better architecture, definately. In Finland, I don't see any structure or architecture at all and most buildings have no sound proof or a really bad one. And, finnish people like to Party, especially in the summer. We have a festivals here, I have a trauma from it. It is quite far away, but if we have festivals here in the summer, my windows are shaking. The music is so loud that we can't sleep and with shaking windows...nope. And it goes on for days. Also in my apartment, the heating system does not work, so if it's minus 20 outside, and plus 16 inside, I can't heat up my apartment. Nowadays a lot of scam goes around in Finland. I wonder where they got our numbers, but this is really annoying to get phone calls, from a finnish number and it is a scam. Also text messages come in and I asked the company if this is a scam or not and they said, yes it is a scam. The amount of scamming in Finland is a bit too high for a european country. Finland is also one of the countries with the highest domestic violence :(

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agroot
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Re: Life with children in Finland vs. Sweden/Austria/Germany

Post by agroot » Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:25 pm

Mizu1993 wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 3:34 pm
As Upphew said too, yes it is more racist. There are many cases, I can tell you a few.
If you don't speak the language, it is getting hard. Once I tried to order in the store some meatballs and mashed potatoes in english. That didn't go well. The lady did not want to give me the food. Then another person came and saw that she is denying to hand me the food. This person helped out then. Since then I am not going there anymore, even though it is the closest K market in this area. Once I ordered food in Hesburger with my broken finnish. I might have said it correctly, but with accent, so again, I got denied to get food and the same thing happened again. I was also thrown out of the bus twice. Once there were 2 old ladies and I was traveling with my baby and my finnish boyfriend. He didn't say anything, but the one lady got really angry because of something. The other lady defended us, but then stepped out of the bus because she couldn't handle it anymore. At the same bus stop, the bus driver came to me and I said, "I have no idea what is going on". His reply was "You are making trouble, so I have to remove you from the bus", which he did. Another time I was removed from the bus, because my toddler was crying in the bus, though I tried to calm my daughter down, but didn't work, so basically same happened again. If someone comes to you and you say, you don't speak finnish, it mostly goes well, but in some cases, it just doesn't. I have also heard from a black woman, that she got forcefully removed from the train and that police even beat her up and she posted the story all over the finnish facebook group. I have heard some stories from people who have color (meaning mostly dark skinned people), who have a lot of problems here with racism.
Are you living in some small town? My experience in Helsinki has been positive and never had problem going by English as an Asian looking person. The one time I waved my hand too late for bus (trouble identifying the number from self-darkened eyeglass) and the driver was angry he had to stop when very close, but he let me in nevertheless. Also there are black and middle-eastern looking drivers.

I have never heard of toddler crying on bus. In fact I think I haven't seen them on bus at all.

Someone did tell me things are different in small towns, so best for foreigners to stick in large cities.
Mizu1993 wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 3:34 pm
But also what I want to add to the main topic: Finnish apartments are crap. You can hear everything and most walls are like paper. You hear neighbors talking, trampling around, eating, everything. Austria has better architecture, definately. In Finland, I don't see any structure or architecture at all and most buildings have no sound proof or a really bad one. And, finnish people like to Party, especially in the summer. We have a festivals here, I have a trauma from it. It is quite far away, but if we have festivals here in the summer, my windows are shaking. The music is so loud that we can't sleep and with shaking windows...nope. And it goes on for days. Also in my apartment, the heating system does not work, so if it's minus 20 outside, and plus 16 inside, I can't heat up my apartment.
What you're describing is not normal at all.

In two apartments I live, the heating always works, though temp is definitely higher in the current one built around 50s. Noise is not audible at day but at quiet night I could hear water running, door closing and washing machine shaking and sex just for one time, so I put sound-absorbing panels and have not been troubled since, other than some poor neighboring dog which was used as morning alarm every 8am but that was fixed by the bf of the lady I guess (no more noise since I saw them together ) :lol:

But those panels definitely can't solve the window shaking problem. You need to move elsewhere and new apartments are definitely much better.

Mizu1993
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Re: Life with children in Finland vs. Sweden/Austria/Germany

Post by Mizu1993 » Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:54 pm

agroot wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:25 pm
Mizu1993 wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 3:34 pm
As Upphew said too, yes it is more racist. There are many cases, I can tell you a few.
If you don't speak the language, it is getting hard. Once I tried to order in the store some meatballs and mashed potatoes in english. That didn't go well. The lady did not want to give me the food. Then another person came and saw that she is denying to hand me the food. This person helped out then. Since then I am not going there anymore, even though it is the closest K market in this area. Once I ordered food in Hesburger with my broken finnish. I might have said it correctly, but with accent, so again, I got denied to get food and the same thing happened again. I was also thrown out of the bus twice. Once there were 2 old ladies and I was traveling with my baby and my finnish boyfriend. He didn't say anything, but the one lady got really angry because of something. The other lady defended us, but then stepped out of the bus because she couldn't handle it anymore. At the same bus stop, the bus driver came to me and I said, "I have no idea what is going on". His reply was "You are making trouble, so I have to remove you from the bus", which he did. Another time I was removed from the bus, because my toddler was crying in the bus, though I tried to calm my daughter down, but didn't work, so basically same happened again. If someone comes to you and you say, you don't speak finnish, it mostly goes well, but in some cases, it just doesn't. I have also heard from a black woman, that she got forcefully removed from the train and that police even beat her up and she posted the story all over the finnish facebook group. I have heard some stories from people who have color (meaning mostly dark skinned people), who have a lot of problems here with racism.
Are you living in some small town? My experience in Helsinki has been positive and never had problem going by English as an Asian looking person. The one time I waved my hand too late for bus (trouble identifying the number from self-darkened eyeglass) and the driver was angry he had to stop when very close, but he let me in nevertheless. Also there are black and middle-eastern looking drivers.

I have never heard of toddler crying on bus. In fact I think I haven't seen them on bus at all.

Someone did tell me things are different in small towns, so best for foreigners to stick in large cities.
Mizu1993 wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 3:34 pm
But also what I want to add to the main topic: Finnish apartments are crap. You can hear everything and most walls are like paper. You hear neighbors talking, trampling around, eating, everything. Austria has better architecture, definately. In Finland, I don't see any structure or architecture at all and most buildings have no sound proof or a really bad one. And, finnish people like to Party, especially in the summer. We have a festivals here, I have a trauma from it. It is quite far away, but if we have festivals here in the summer, my windows are shaking. The music is so loud that we can't sleep and with shaking windows...nope. And it goes on for days. Also in my apartment, the heating system does not work, so if it's minus 20 outside, and plus 16 inside, I can't heat up my apartment.
What you're describing is not normal at all.

In two apartments I live, the heating always works, though temp is definitely higher in the current one built around 50s. Noise is not audible at day but at quiet night I could hear water running, door closing and washing machine shaking and sex just for one time, so I put sound-absorbing panels and have not been troubled since, other than some poor neighboring dog which was used as morning alarm every 8am but that was fixed by the bf of the lady I guess (no more noise since I saw them together ) :lol:

But those panels definitely can't solve the window shaking problem. You need to move elsewhere and new apartments are definitely much better.
I live in Tampere, so not really small ^^" Yes true, there are a few foreign bus drivers too.
Well that is strange. In Tampere there are so many moms going around with the carriage and the baby or child in the bus. Often there are so many, that you have to wait for the next bus, because the space for the carriages is already taken. Mostly it fits 2-3 in there. Might be different in Helsinki, I don't know that.
But yes, the smaller the city / town or the more north you get, the more difficult it gets, but that makes sense in a way.

Ouch, that does sound quite back at night with the noise. How did you put sound absorbing panels somewhere? Which ones? Where to get those? How to use them in an apartment? It is not so easy to get an apartment. I keep searching since 1 1/2 years and I don't get any (probably because I am a mom, none finnish speaker and not working currently). But the rent is so high too. I pay here in Tampere 800€ for 52m².

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agroot
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Re: Life with children in Finland vs. Sweden/Austria/Germany

Post by agroot » Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:46 pm

Mizu1993 wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:54 pm
Ouch, that does sound quite back at night with the noise. How did you put sound absorbing panels somewhere? Which ones? Where to get those? How to use them in an apartment? It is not so easy to get an apartment. I keep searching since 1 1/2 years and I don't get any (probably because I am a mom, none finnish speaker and not working currently). But the rent is so high too. I pay here in Tampere 800€ for 52m².
From oikotie.fi it looks like you have many options! Are there community trains in Tampere? In Helsinki my top choices are remote places with train stations, which are extremely convenient (faster than bus) but not popular / higher chance of success.

I cover half of bedroom ceiling with these: panels and bass traps for corner. Most products are similar - they are light and can easily be glued to ceiling or walls, but the main use is actually not soundproofing as they're far less effective than thick walls or real soundproof works (an inner wall with special glue in-between).

In my experience if the noise is only audible when you're about to sleep or back to bed at midnight, then they'd definitely help, but not if e.g. some heavy object fall into ground (that could wake you up immediately) which seems like your current situation. But they might help if you move to a better apartment and still get annoyed by midnight noises.

Spucks
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Re: Life with children in Finland vs. Sweden/Austria/Germany

Post by Spucks » Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:25 am

Oh, wow, Mizu, that sounds horrible! Note to myself: avoid Tampere ;)

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Re: Life with children in Finland vs. Sweden/Austria/Germany

Post by Spucks » Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:26 am

Upphew wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:00 pm
Spucks wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:17 pm
Is Finland really more rascist than Austria? I assumed it was the other way round.
Yup: https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/finl ... s/10531670
Well, at least when it comes to rascist police my assumption was right. Not happy about it though :(

MaryHer
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Re: Life with children in Finland vs. Sweden/Austria/Germany

Post by MaryHer » Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:57 pm

Although I would not say I experienced direct racism, I do experience "attitude" (in Helsinki area). I am white but slavic though, so it may be different for people of colour.

1.There is this overwhelming Finnish "pride", like I went to private doctor in pregnancy, who was Finnish, and one of the first sentences I heard was how "Finnish maternity care is best in the world", which is crap. The health care here, including maternity is very low level for EU standards (but you can read in other plots on the forum about that.) Anyway, Finnish people think it is great, all the expats (at least from other EU countries) think it is crap, since they have comparison. But the point is even not what is better, they point is that they just shove it to your face constantly, how great they think their system, health care, everything is, even how their berries are cleaner, while imported berries are unhealthy.
When I went again private I went to an Italian doctor, since I could not stand this Finnish attitude.

2. I did experience a lot of weird questions from maternity clinic, like “do you love already your baby in your belly”, “if you are too worried about things (yes, I am worried since they don’t do many tests that would be done if I was in my home country/my work country since again the health care is bad and very basic only), maybe we will need to check if you can take care of your baby”, etc. Maybe it is normal in Finland to poke nose into your most personal and intimate matters, but in my home country or the country where I work, such questions asked by a public nurse would be considered highly inappropriate. We are married, with good jobs, I am university professor and I cant see any reason why they would insinuate that I can have any trouble taking care o my child. I do personally think that if I was Finnish, nobody would be treating me a “suspect”.

3. Doctor’s appointment in Women’s clinic. I go with my husband. The doctor speaks English and anyway she talks now and then finish to my husband totally omitting me, while I lie on a chair bottom up during USG. So rude.

4. Another’s doctor’s appointment at Women‘s clinic: they call me with delay, saying they were looking for an interpreter in my mother tongue (In my papers it says, preferred communication: English)
I say that I speak English, no need. The midwife expresses her doubt (with a specific intonation) “oh.. If you think so”. My English is better than the doctor’s (:D). The doctor picks some calls during the appointment which eat my time. Towards the end (I am anyway not tracking time on my watch—again both in Poland and in Germany you take as much time as you need at doctor's), I ask some questions, the midwife rudely interrupts saying “It is already few minutes of the other patient, so you have to go now”. I am basically very rudely told to leave NOW (no polite suggestion earlier or so). Again, I doubt that they would be so rude to a Finnish patient.

Mizu1993
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Re: Life with children in Finland vs. Sweden/Austria/Germany

Post by Mizu1993 » Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:42 am

agroot wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:46 pm
Mizu1993 wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:54 pm
Ouch, that does sound quite back at night with the noise. How did you put sound absorbing panels somewhere? Which ones? Where to get those? How to use them in an apartment? It is not so easy to get an apartment. I keep searching since 1 1/2 years and I don't get any (probably because I am a mom, none finnish speaker and not working currently). But the rent is so high too. I pay here in Tampere 800€ for 52m².
From oikotie.fi it looks like you have many options! Are there community trains in Tampere? In Helsinki my top choices are remote places with train stations, which are extremely convenient (faster than bus) but not popular / higher chance of success.

I cover half of bedroom ceiling with these: panels and bass traps for corner. Most products are similar - they are light and can easily be glued to ceiling or walls, but the main use is actually not soundproofing as they're far less effective than thick walls or real soundproof works (an inner wall with special glue in-between).

In my experience if the noise is only audible when you're about to sleep or back to bed at midnight, then they'd definitely help, but not if e.g. some heavy object fall into ground (that could wake you up immediately) which seems like your current situation. But they might help if you move to a better apartment and still get annoyed by midnight noises.
Yes, apartments are available, that is not the problem. The problem is to actually get apartments. Like I said, for me personally, I don't have much of a chance to get an apartment because of the things I have already stated. I guess it's the same in whole Finland, you look at an apartment, have to fill out a form and if the landlord likes you, then you get it, if not, then not. Since many landlords are old and don't speak english, bad luck for foreigners who don't speak finnish. And without a job, it is nearly impossible too.
I don't know what you mean with community trains. We have of course trains which lead out of the city and ratikka should be coming soon(ish).

And I so agree with MeryHer. Also in the baby ward, so after giving birth, no one wants to talk english there and I felt very left alone with my baby. Even if I was asking for help or just checking, no one talked to me, maybe only 1 or 2 nurses. The dad had to work and was not often there either. I wish I could give birth in a private clinic, but not sure if this exists nor I would have the money for it.

And Spucks, even if you avoid Tampere, it is one city, but still located in Finland. You'll probably find people in every city, which are not nice and the system is most likely everywhere the same in Finland. Just the more north you get, the more difficult it gets. And Tampere is not very north actually. Finland is not really the country with rainbows and cute flowers, it's the opposite xD

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agroot
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Re: Life with children in Finland vs. Sweden/Austria/Germany

Post by agroot » Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:57 am

Mizu1993 wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:42 am
Yes, apartments are available, that is not the problem. The problem is to actually get apartments. Like I said, for me personally, I don't have much of a chance to get an apartment because of the things I have already stated. I guess it's the same in whole Finland, you look at an apartment, have to fill out a form and if the landlord likes you, then you get it, if not, then not. Since many landlords are old and don't speak english, bad luck for foreigners who don't speak finnish. And without a job, it is nearly impossible too.
It might be easier if you send application for the kind that have been left vacant for some time - for instance, some apartments are posted but then expired and withdrawn after a few weeks, then posted again (and repeat over and over). Mine was dirty and actually not recommended by the agent, but it looks great after cleanup.
Mizu1993 wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:42 am
I don't know what you mean with community trains. We have of course trains which lead out of the city and ratikka should be coming soon(ish).
My mistake - it's "commuter trains". They're not for going out but within the Helsinki area.

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Re: Life with children in Finland vs. Sweden/Austria/Germany

Post by Upphew » Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:18 pm

Mizu1993 wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:42 am
I don't know what you mean with community trains. We have of course trains which lead out of the city and ratikka should be coming soon(ish).
https://www.nysse.fi/en/other-services/train.html
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