How much does one need to pay to become a citizen?

[Yuriko]

Hi everyone!
I want to ask especially those who have got your Finnish citizenship, how much approximately did you spend monthly?
I got a negative decision on my application for Finnish citizenship after I fulfilled the criteria with Type A permit, the only reason stated on the decision was because - I didn't spend enough money. Since I moved here, I've been saving every cent I could and buying the cheapest possible. I don't buy anything else than food, no clothes, no travelling or entertainment, never dine out. It is common that I eat a pack of noodles or several potatoes for an entire day. Except for the housing rent I spend like 50-80e/month. And the decision stated explicitly that spending "only this little amount" does not sufficiently show how my daily expenses are covered.
How much do you spend monthly, just to have a rough idea? (Or how much more do I need to spend? ) From now on I will be forced to spend more unnecessarily, just to make my account statement look "beautiful" to the migri officers!
Thank you very much!

[Maaria]

Is there an option to appeal?

[browndude]

Hi everyone!
I want to ask especially those who have got your Finnish citizenship, how much approximately did you spend monthly?
I got a negative decision on my application for Finnish citizenship after I fulfilled the criteria with Type A permit, the only reason stated on the decision was because - I didn't spend enough money. Since I moved here, I've been saving every cent I could and buying the cheapest possible. I don't buy anything else than food, no clothes, no travelling or entertainment, never dine out. It is common that I eat a pack of noodles or several potatoes for an entire day. Except for the housing rent I spend like 50-80e/month. And the decision stated explicitly that spending "only this little amount" does not sufficiently show how my daily expenses are covered.
How much do you spend monthly, just to have a rough idea? (Or how much more do I need to spend? ) From now on I will be forced to spend more unnecessarily, just to make my account statement look "beautiful" to the migri officers!
Thank you very much!

While I am not saying that it is impossible, I find it quite difficult to believe that one can live in Finland by spending only 50-80 euros/month for a period of 5 years. I am not saying it is impossible, it is just a very, very extreme situation. This is just my interpretation of the situation. Where does your income come from? Do you have income form a job or a business? Have you shown where have you kept all your savings? I don't necessarily think this is a question about you not spending enough money per month. I think it is more about you not providing sufficient evidence about your finances since you are such an extreme case.

[network_engineer]

This is unheard of! Perhaps something lost in translation? I am just wondering.

The requirement to have an income was already removed quite some years ago; however, one must show some *means* of subsistence, not expenses.

As far as I can recall, the requirement to spend anything was never there, nor to grow a beard, nor shave, or to even take a bath.

So, this is very odd. Can you ask them for the exact legal requirement to spend to their expectations?

The only stipulation I can think of here, no record of spending here could imply that you don't live here (i.e. and therefore the period of residence).

To get that information, they would have to explicitly demand all financial transactions, that too is NOT within the scope of their law, as far as I know.

Any more information?

[Yuriko]

While I am not saying that it is impossible, I find it quite difficult to believe that one can live in Finland by spending only 50-80 euros/month for a period of 5 years. I am not saying it is impossible, it is just a very, very extreme situation. This is just my interpretation of the situation.

'Just because you don't see something doesn't mean it isn't there.' - R.C. Lewis
I just did a quick search online on how much people spend monthly on food, quite some appear to live on a low budget:

menot
27.02.2017 18:13
Olen 56 mies asun yksin ja noin 100 e kk menee ruokaan [1]

Pihipakolainen
12.03.2017 09:44
Minulle menne noin 50€ kukausi. [1]

AvaraMieli80
26.03.2017 09:29
kyllä 100e max. [1]

Huonepöly
14.04.2017 00:34
Ruokaan menee noin 80 € kuussa. Perussettiä. [1]

Anonyymi
04.07.2020 18:04
50€ pärjää tarvittaessa [1]

Kake vm. -68
04.08.2011 18:20
selvisin muuten heinäkuussa vain 50 euron ruokakuluilla. Normaalisti menee n. 70 euroa kuukaudessa ruokaan ja hygieniatarvikkeisiin. [2]

2/74 | klo 11:32 | 2.6.2017
Noin 60 euroa. [3]

12/74 | klo 12:05 | 2.6.2017
Noin 70€
Kokkaan aina itse enkä syö valmisruokia. [3]

14/74 | klo 12:07 | 2.6.2017
Olen yksinasuva nainen ja rahaa menee n 80€
Syön kyllä aika vähän. [3]

15/74 | klo 12:08 | 2.6.2017
Olen opiskelija, ja ruokiin menee 60€/kk [3]

48/74 | klo 17:18 | 2.6.2017
Kyllähän sitä pitää 70 €:lla pärjätä kuukaudessa. [3]

57/74 | klo 18:10 | 2.6.2017
N. 60e. [3]

70/74 | klo 14:47 | 29.3.2019
Makarooni + atrian grillimakkara kombolla 52e/kk, siihen päälle halppis ketsupit ja lihaliemikuutiot eli kokonaisuudessaan n. 60e/kk [3]

73/74 | klo 13:17 | 6.10.2021
75-125 e, riippuu kuukaudesta [3]

[1] https://keskustelu.suomi24.fi/t/1459562 ... uukaudessa
[2] https://keskustelu.suomi24.fi/t/1003422 ... 50-eurolla!
[3] https://www.vauva.fi/keskustelu/2887441 ... uukaudessa

Not surprisingly, in this kind of threads there are always people doubt that it's impossible a person can't live by little expenses (like you do, although understandable). Some Finns really spoke my mind.

31/74 | klo 15:17 | 2.6.2017
Tässä numero 17. Joo se keitto on sitten erikseen. On ihan mahdollista elää 50€ jos syö hyvin vähän, tyyliin ruisleipäpaketti, margariini, spagettia, soijarouhetta, ketsuppia ja polarjuustoa. [3]

Of course there are tremendously more people who spend much more, but I don't think I'm that extreme. Even some locals live in such a way, and the above quoted are just from 2 posts. If living on a low budget makes it illegitimate to be a citizen, should they consider to deprive the citizenship of all the above innocent.

Where does your income come from? Do you have income form a job or a business? Have you shown where have you kept all your savings? I don't necessarily think this is a question about you not spending enough money per month. I think it is more about you not providing sufficient evidence about your finances since you are such an extreme case.

I have a normal job and earn regular income, I have only 1 bank account and my savings are clearly shown in the bank account statement, all the income and expenditures are there. The negative decision explicitly stated that it is clear from my account statement how I get money, but does not show how I spend, for "only this little amount". The officer appears to be among those who find it hard to believe. Since you somehow have the same opinion with the officer, could you give a number that you think one should spend for a month? I will have to try to reach that figure.

[network_engineer]

@OP.

See my post above.

Do you plan to appeal the decision?

[hellofelicia]

Where does your income come from? Do you have income form a job or a business? Have you shown where have you kept all your savings? I don't necessarily think this is a question about you not spending enough money per month. I think it is more about you not providing sufficient evidence about your finances since you are such an extreme case.

I have a normal job and earn regular income, I have only 1 bank account and my savings are clearly shown in the bank account statement, all the income and expenditures are there. The negative decision explicitly stated that it is clear from my account statement how I get money, but does not show how I spend, for "only this little amount". The officer appears to be among those who find it hard to believe. Since you somehow have the same opinion with the officer, could you give a number that you think one should spend for a month? I will have to try to reach that figure.

My hunch is that since you're earning a regular income but are such an extreme outlier in terms of spending, there is a suspicion that you earn a side income paid under the table which you use to pay for your living expenses.

I would guess that people in your examples who spend little are students/unemployed/on benefits, so it raises a question why would a regular earner live like that. A monthly public transportation ticket is like 80% of what you claim is your monthly budget, and it is hard to believe that in 5 years, you never needed a new pair of shoes or a winter coat. Not saying I don't believe you but it is easy to see how that raises suspicion. I don't know how you could appeal that with Migri though.

FYI, at least for students the minimum amount considered enough to sustain themselves is 560e per month.

[Yuriko]

This is unheard of! Perhaps something lost in translation? I am just wondering.

The requirement to have an income was already removed quite some years ago; however, one must show some *means* of subsistence, not expenses.

As far as I can recall, the requirement to spend anything was never there, nor to grow a beard, nor shave, or to even take a bath.

So, this is very odd. Can you ask them for the exact legal requirement to spend to their expectations?

The only stipulation I can think of here, no record of spending here could imply that you don't live here (i.e. and therefore the period of residence).

To get that information, they would have to explicitly demand all financial transactions, that too is NOT within the scope of their law, as far as I know.

Any more information?

Thank you so much @network_engineer for helping out and sharing your opinions. And sorry for the late response.
I too thought it odd, I wasn't aware of any requirement to spend and was thus quite surprised. Indeed they did demand all financial transactions and based on that they made the decision.

Hakijan toimittamista tiliotteista ei käy selville hakijan päivittäisiä menoja, ilmenevät ostossummat ovat pääosin olleet vain muutamien kymmenien eurojen suuruisia. Maahanmuuttovirasto katsoo, ettei hakija ole uskottavasti selvittänyt, kuinka hän on hoitanut päivittäiset elantomenonsa.

Although my Finnish is not perfect, but I don't think I misunderstood it.
Yes I think you are right! It only makes sense if they suspect that I didn't reside here.
I also wish to know their legal requirement to spend, but I don't know from whom should I ask. I do intend to appeal, although I don't really know how in this case when not knowing their requirement or threshold of spending.

[browndude]

This is unheard of! Perhaps something lost in translation? I am just wondering.

The requirement to have an income was already removed quite some years ago; however, one must show some *means* of subsistence, not expenses.

As far as I can recall, the requirement to spend anything was never there, nor to grow a beard, nor shave, or to even take a bath.

So, this is very odd. Can you ask them for the exact legal requirement to spend to their expectations?

The only stipulation I can think of here, no record of spending here could imply that you don't live here (i.e. and therefore the period of residence).

To get that information, they would have to explicitly demand all financial transactions, that too is NOT within the scope of their law, as far as I know.

Any more information?

Thank you so much @network_engineer for helping out and sharing your opinions. And sorry for the late response.
I too thought it odd, I wasn't aware of any requirement to spend and was thus quite surprised. Indeed they did demand all financial transactions and based on that they made the decision.

Hakijan toimittamista tiliotteista ei käy selville hakijan päivittäisiä menoja, ilmenevät ostossummat ovat pääosin olleet vain muutamien kymmenien eurojen suuruisia. Maahanmuuttovirasto katsoo, ettei hakija ole uskottavasti selvittänyt, kuinka hän on hoitanut päivittäiset elantomenonsa.

Although my Finnish is not perfect, but I don't think I misunderstood it.
Yes I think you are right! It only makes sense if they suspect that I didn't reside here.
I also wish to know their legal requirement to spend, but I don't know from whom should I ask. I do intend to appeal, although I don't really know how in this case when not knowing their requirement or threshold of spending.

So what Migri say is that "The banking statement supplied by the applicant does not sufficiently explain the applicants daily expenditures, the purchase sums shown in the statement are primarily on the order of a few tens of euros. Migri views it such that the appicant has not provided belivable evidence as to how the applicant handles his/her daily expenses".

You provided instances of others who claim that they also spend typlically less than 100 Euros per month on food-if we are talking about only the amount spent on food for one person, that is ceartainly possible-although not recommended since not having a balanced diet over a long period of many years will have an impact on your health in the future-but that is another issue. You said you spend 50-80 Euros per month, is that just on food? How do you pay your electricty bills, phone bills, water bills, internet bills etc..? Do you not spend on travel at all? How do you get to the stores and workplace etc..?

If you provide believable evidence as to how you handle all your daily expenses and not just your bank statement-maybe a more detailed description of all your expenses-then you can maybe get the decision changed.