Moving to Finland from Germany

[LuisF]

Hi everyone,

I studied and worked for 4 years in Germany.

I am considering accepting a job offer at Oracle in Helsinki and I am looking for more information about the city and the tax system in Finland. I would really appreciate if anyone could provide some insights or experiences they may have had.

Here are my questions:
1. How is the living cost in Helsinki compared to smaller cities in Germany?
2. What are the most affordable areas to live in Helsinki?
3. How is the public transportation in Helsinki?
4. How is the job market in Helsinki for non-Finnish citizens(In case if something does not work out at Oracle)?
5. What are the most popular leisure activities in Helsinki?
6. How is the healthcare system in Finland?
7. What are the tax rates in Finland for a single individual?
8. Are there any tax exemptions for expats living in Finland? Is there similar think like 30% ruling in the Netherlands?
9. How is the social security system in Finland? And what is included in the standard deductions?
10. Are there any cultural differences to be aware of when living in Helsinki?

Any additional information or tips on living and working in Helsinki would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance!

Regards,
Luis

[network_engineer]

I am considering accepting a job offer at Oracle in Helsinki and I am looking for more information about the city and the tax system in Finland. I would really appreciate if anyone could provide some insights or experiences they may have had.

Disasterous. You get some benefits. In my opinion, the net value, they are negative. As the income grows higher, the benefits of paying taxes drop - drastically. As I see it, and this is my personal opinion: Work based immigrants are expected to pay and subsidise the locals and their misgivings. You don't want to read this. Use Google Translate.

1. How is the living cost in Helsinki compared to smaller cities in Germany?

HIGH! VERY HIGH. I worked in Berlin for a while. A whole dinner including a bottle of wine was about 25e. Forget it. Here the food is lousy and the prices high. As they say, what is the 7-course Finnish meal? 6 beers and mashed potatoes.

On a serious note: Germany is way cheaper than Finland.

2. What are the most affordable areas to live in Helsinki?

Prices differ. Depends on the area! Downtown more expensive. But are you looking for a small apartment? Shared?

3. How is the public transportation in Helsinki?

Compared to Berlin and Munich? Non-existent and expensive. Not to mention ... now, where was that brown emoji again?

4. How is the job market in Helsinki for non-Finnish citizens(In case if something does not work out at Oracle)?

BAD. Your résumé does not even get in the door without a Finnish name, and that's when you speak reasonably fluent Finnish. Much has been said about it. It has gotten progressively worse (yep, oxymoron).

The worst part is the arrogance, i.e. we know better ... never mind that they don't!

5. What are the most popular leisure activities in Helsinki?

For the natives: Cleaning up the snow, paying taxes. Claiming how great the country is.

6. How is the healthcare system in Finland?

Tertiary healthcare: Very good, excellent.
Primary healthcare?
You might survive better on old wives tales. I was tempted to say "tails".

7. What are the tax rates in Finland for a single individual?

Progressive. Depends on the income. Google 'Finland tax calculator'. The county taxes on top of that.

8. Are there any tax exemptions for expats living in Finland? Is there similar think like 30% ruling in the Netherlands?

Yes, but are you kidding me? Read this thread.
In short, yes, but the rate is higher than what even the natives pay!

9. How is the social security system in Finland? And what is included in the standard deductions?

Kinda ok. The daycare is good. I read that schooling is okay, school lunches have been severely condemned, the quality is horrible. They were planning to introduce fees for higher education ... in a nutshell, keep raising taxes, reduce the benefits. Wonder where the money is going. Sorry ... they *don't* wonder where the money is going, er, patriotism, loyalty, nationalism are key ... after all, only the foreigners are blamed for the crime and violence.

10. Are there any cultural differences to be aware of when living in Helsinki?

Ha! Depends. Compared to? In a nutshell, yes. When you are comparing to the "happiest" country in the world!!!

[LuisF]

Hi,

Thank you for the inputs. I got butterflies in my stomach from your feedback

I am looking for a studio somewhere in Espoo. What websites would you recommend for searching for a studio or initially at least have some ideas about the prices?

Progressive. Depends on the income. Google 'Finland tax calculator'. The county taxes on top of that.

I tried different calculators for a yearly income of 40000 Euros:

• This one gives me a monthly net salary of € 2,045

• This one gives me a monthly net salary of € 2,237

Almost 10% difference.

I tried also https://avoinomavero.vero.fi/_/#3 but looks super complicated and a lot of information is just new for me. Can you recommend a reliable calculator which is easy to use, similar to the this German one?

LuisF wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 4:54 pm
8. Are there any tax exemptions for expats living in Finland? Is there similar think like 30% ruling in the Netherlands?

Yes, but are you kidding me? Read this thread.
In short, yes, but the rate is higher than what even the natives pay!

Why is that? Isn't this a discrimination, or what is the base for doing this?

Cheers,
L

[FinlandGirl]

I tried different calculators for a yearly income of 40000 Euros:

• This one gives me a monthly net salary of € 2,045

• This one gives me a monthly net salary of € 2,237

Almost 10% difference.

The tax rate depends on church membership (like in Germany) and the municipality where you are living, with an income of 40000 Euros such factors can change the income tax by more than 200 Euro per month.

I tried also https://avoinomavero.vero.fi/_/#3 but looks super complicated and a lot of information is just new for me. Can you recommend a reliable calculator which is easy to use, similar to the this German one?

The Vero calculator is the most reliable one, Municipality/Parish/Birthyear on the first page and "Estimate for the entire year" on the second page is all that is needed for an estimate.

[LuisF]

Thank you for the clarification and for your time.

Regards,
L

[network_engineer]

Thank you for the inputs. I got butterflies in my stomach from your feedback

Better butterflies ... scratch that, flies in the stomach, than you getting so frustrated if you move that you do something worse!

I am looking for a studio somewhere in Espoo. What websites would you recommend for searching for a studio or initially at least have some ideas about the prices?

E.g etuovi.com
Look for the words, Vuokraus OR Vuokra-assunuot - Kerrostalo is apartments, Huoneita is rooms etc.

Yes, but are you kidding me? Read this thread.
In short, yes, but the rate is higher than what even the natives pay!

Why is that? Isn't this a discrimination, or what is the base for doing this?

But it in their interest no? Given a choice, you'd be missing a kidney or liver if that helps the economy!

Well, you've been warned. If you do move here, and after a few years ... come revist the thread!

[agroot]

1. How is the living cost in Helsinki compared to smaller cities in Germany?

I buy almost everything from Germany except food.

2. What are the most affordable areas to live in Helsinki?

The eastern part is cheap but it's too far away from Oracle which is in Espoo.

4. How is the job market in Helsinki for non-Finnish citizens(In case if something does not work out at Oracle)?

IT? No worries, otherwise no.

5. What are the most popular leisure activities in Helsinki?

kalsarikännit

If you don't have to waste money on un-grown humans, there are of course many activities you could find, golf, archery, shooting range, riding, etc. Also hiking and ice-swimming are free.

8. Are there any tax exemptions for expats living in Finland? Is there similar think like 30% ruling in the Netherlands?

Yes but that rate is for top managers and that's why it's high. It's for people getting paid like 200k a year (and no, this is not US)

9. How is the social security system in Finland? And what is included in the standard deductions?

Everything. And you can also join wage-based unemployment fund - very cheap.

normally, no deduction, not the kind that give you more spendable money every month.

10. Are there any cultural differences to be aware of when living in Helsinki?

I was very annoyed in Germany where people don't respect my personal space.

--

with 2000 to 2500 post-tax income, subtract 1000 for rent+utility, 200 to 400 grocery and maybe 500 saving, there is no much left if you want to buy a car or a house. And you can forget about going to bars or restaurants everyday, except for lunch.

[LuisF]

Thank you all for the details answers and also good to see different opinions!

[betelgeuse]

8. Are there any tax exemptions for expats living in Finland? Is there similar think like 30% ruling in the Netherlands?

Yes but that rate is for top managers and that's why it's high. It's for people getting paid like 200k a year (and no, this is not US)

The limit is much lower.

” the individual in question is paid at least EUR 5,800 per month for this employment for the entire period of their work;”

https://www.vero.fi/en/detailed-guidanc ... employees/

[agroot]

The limit is much lower.

” the individual in question is paid at least EUR 5,800 per month for this employment for the entire period of their work;”

https://www.vero.fi/en/detailed-guidanc ... employees/

The rate 32% is not reached for residents in Helsinki until salary reaches EUR 9,000 per month.

[Samael]

Hello,
Sorry for the late reply, hope it still helps.
I've been living in Germany for more than 6 years.

1. How is the living cost in Helsinki compared to smaller cities in Germany?

Check numbeo.com. It's not very precise for small cities but still gives some impression.
The biggest expense item is still property. In Germany you would definitely have greater salary. Property in smaller cities can be comparable in value with Helsinki. But there is a nuance that is usually not mentioned in the enthusiastic blogger' articles about how great Germany is. If you consider secondary housing market (old houses) you might face the mold issue in Germany. The chances you get the thing in Finland are much less. Even in new buildings in Germany, the ventilation system is sometimes built so badly (although it works) that it squeaks, farts and whistles so that you just want to turn it off and ventilate through the windows, as many Germans do.

Also Germany is a land of renters, not buyers. They think it gives you mobility. If your mentality is rather to buy and have your own walls I would consider Finland.

4. How is the job market in Helsinki for non-Finnish citizens(In case if something does not work out at Oracle)?

I think it is the almost the same in both countries. But definitely with much less pain in the ass in Finland because they are more advanced in digitalization. In Germany you will have to fill many paper documents, your contracts will contain much more information.

6. How is the healthcare system in Finland?

I will not judge about the quality. But maybe Finland has a bit more fair system. In Germany the same doctor can receive patients with state medical insurance and with the private one. The latter ones will be served much faster and better.

10. Are there any cultural differences to be aware of when living in Helsinki?

If you prefer social distancing, fair winter, more fair school system, dual citizenship, better property quality, better internet, better digitalization, a reasonable and sane approach over bureaucracy with thousand of contradicting rules, card payments over cash, sitting alone on the lake shore and enjoying silence over sitting in a "Beergarden" in leather shorts in the loud crowd, choose Finland.