Layoffs in Finland

[ozil-madrid]

Hi folks,

I have a question about how layoffs work in finland. As you can see in the news all big tech companies are firing people. How does it work in Finland?

1- Do they have to pay you something when they want to release you if the companies financials are still good and they just want to get rid of people? In the US they paid people 4 months and fired them on the same day. What's the process in finland?

2- I am a member of YTK, does it pay same as tek,fi for engineers who get laid off? I am an engineer but i was using YTK as it was cheaper, if tek would pay more and im still not laid off perhaps i should subscribe to the other?

Thanks for your advice.

[FinlandGirl]

1- Do they have to pay you something when they want to release you if the companies financials are still good and they just want to get rid of people? In the US they paid people 4 months and fired them on the same day. What's the process in finland?

In Finland you have to work and are receiving your normal salary until the end of the notice period, which is likely either 2 weeks or 1 month for you.

2- I am a member of YTK, does it pay same as tek,fi for engineers who get laid off? I am an engineer but i was using YTK as it was cheaper, if tek would pay more and im still not laid off perhaps i should subscribe to the other?

Unemployment benefits are the same, an union like TEK would additionally provide support with questions and lawyers where necessary if you for example doubt that your layoff was lawful.

[kalaizanala]

Hi folks,

I have a question about how layoffs work in finland. As you can see in the news all big tech companies are firing people. How does it work in Finland?

Can you please say which sector? Is it only about IT? Or also any other?
I didn't see the news. May be somebody can provide a link.

[inkku]

YTK has an annex which provides legal services. Basically they cover everything you need.
https://en.ytk-yhdistys.fi/about-us/top ... k-worklife

[ozil-madrid]

only 1 months? thats a shame, some told me 3-6 months....or is there certain cases where they'd do that?

with YTK i might get around 1300, how much would it have been if kela have paid instead? ive never been unemployed so i have no idea. Does kela cover everything usually but it would still be less than 1300 by YTK or how does it work?

Lastly, what if i need to move apartments while unemployed and new tenants would refuse as im unemployed, does kela help with that?

Thanks!

1- Do they have to pay you something when they want to release you if the companies financials are still good and they just want to get rid of people? In the US they paid people 4 months and fired them on the same day. What's the process in finland?

In Finland you have to work and are receiving your normal salary until the end of the notice period, which is likely either 2 weeks or 1 month for you.

2- I am a member of YTK, does it pay same as tek,fi for engineers who get laid off? I am an engineer but i was using YTK as it was cheaper, if tek would pay more and im still not laid off perhaps i should subscribe to the other?

Unemployment benefits are the same, an union like TEK would additionally provide support with questions and lawyers where necessary if you for example doubt that your layoff was lawful.

[machadolucas]

The payments from an unemployment fund are usually much higher than Kela support and are tied to your salary (earning related). As said before, it does not depend on which is your unemployment fund.

Kela "labour market support" would be 33.78€/day, 5 days a week (~744€/month), but the system is more complex as it depends if you have children or are taking part in TE office trainings.

This brochure has quite a good summary about unemployment benefits: https://www.kela.fi/documents/20124/411 ... -Kela.pdf/

Also, here's a link about the process of having an employment contract ended: https://tyoelamaan.fi/en/employment/not ... signation/

[network_engineer]

Unemployment benefits are the same, an union like TEK would additionally provide support with questions and lawyers where necessary if you for example doubt that your layoff was lawful.

Just to add: Usually Kela and the unemployment fund ask about the details of the severance, IIRC, they take the package of the paid severance period as income and don't pay for that period.

Also to add: The whole thing is a corrupt mess.

[FinlandGirl]

only 1 months? thats a shame, some told me 3-6 months....or is there certain cases where they'd do that?

It's 6 months after more than 12 years at the company.

[ozil-madrid]

The payments from an unemployment fund are usually much higher than Kela support and are tied to your salary (earning related). As said before, it does not depend on which is your unemployment fund.

Kela "labour market support" would be 33.78€/day, 5 days a week (~744€/month), but the system is more complex as it depends if you have children or are taking part in TE office trainings.

This brochure has quite a good summary about unemployment benefits: https://www.kela.fi/documents/20124/411 ... -Kela.pdf/

Also, here's a link about the process of having an employment contract ended: https://tyoelamaan.fi/en/employment/not ... signation/

Thanks, and i guess that 744 euro isn't for housing ya? apartment by itself needs 800 ! If im assuming its not 744 for apartment, then how much do they give for the apartment, is it 100% ? if you have some savings in the bank, will they not give anything for housing for example or how does it work?

Thanks!

[machadolucas]

Thanks, and i guess that 744 euro isn't for housing ya? apartment by itself needs 800 ! If im assuming its not 744 for apartment, then how much do they give for the apartment, is it 100% ? if you have some savings in the bank, will they not give anything for housing for example or how does it work?

Thanks!

The ~744 euros is a unemployment benefit, independent of how much your expenses are. Being part of an unemployment fund is a better deal as your benefit is earnings related and will be higher.

This question then becomes much more complex if you are asking for other types of support from Kela, which you could also get independent of being unemployed or not

Kela has several types of support: for housing, food, studies, unemployment, medication, children, electricity costs, etc. They are all given and calculated based on personal/family needs, income and expenses.
You can find all the explanations in Kela website: https://www.kela.fi/benefits-available-from-kela

[ozil-madrid]

By the way, i saw that for union to talk to the company about layoffs, there needs to be more than 20 people involved in the layoff.

In my case, our company is very small, so i dont think they will layoff more than 5-8 people. The company is profitable, and no re-orgs are happening. So on what basis would they layoff people ?

I read that they can try to offer some package to people so they would resign, but if people say no i dont want to resign and want to stay, then what happens next?

[FinlandGirl]

In my case, our company is very small, so i dont think they will layoff more than 5-8 people. The company is profitable, and no re-orgs are happening. So on what basis would they layoff people ?

I read that they can try to offer some package to people so they would resign, but if people say no i dont want to resign and want to stay, then what happens next?

Small companies don't offer packages, after layoff negotiations they will start the contractual notice periods of the people they want to get rid off.

[ozil-madrid]

In my case, our company is very small, so i dont think they will layoff more than 5-8 people. The company is profitable, and no re-orgs are happening. So on what basis would they layoff people ?

I read that they can try to offer some package to people so they would resign, but if people say no i dont want to resign and want to stay, then what happens next?

That's what I don't understand, I was told in the past that for them to lay you off there needs to be a reason like company bankruptcy, or employee did sth horrible, and there needs to be a valid case to kick you out as it's not easy to kick people out of work here without a proper justification in Finland.

As I said, company is profitable, no reorgs, they're just wanting to reduce expenses, so under what clause can they layoff those 5-8 people? Can you explain more how it works ?

Small companies don't offer packages, after layoff negotiations they will start the contractual notice periods of the people they want to get rid off.

[FinlandGirl]

That's what I don't understand, I was told in the past that for them to lay you off there needs to be a reason like company bankruptcy, or employee did sth horrible, and there needs to be a valid case to kick you out as it's not easy to kick people out of work here without a proper justification in Finland.

As I said, company is profitable, no reorgs, they're just wanting to reduce expenses, so under what clause can they layoff those 5-8 people? Can you explain more how it works ?

A worsened economic outlook might be enough to justify cutting costs to adjust for reduced income in the future.

A union like TEK knows more about the legal details, and can help you if a layoff was not justified.

[inkku]

As said above, you don't need TEK or other unions to give you advice on your rights. YTK annex provides the same services much cheaper. TEK is terribly expensive breeding ground for kokoomus-politicians, I was shocked when I discovered how they waste money, then I just left.

Here is a website where you can read general information regarding the employment and specifically lay-offs in Finland.

https://www.tyosuojelu.fi/web/en/employ ... p/lay-offs