Helsinki in Finland or Munich in Germany? Which city do you prefer?

[fazelsalimi]

Hello friends. first of all thanks for all the helpful information which you shared on this website.

I will be having a job offer that will be located in Helsinki or Munich and I have the option to choose. But I didn't visit either of them!
May you please help me and share your experience and all pros and cons of these 2 cities and countries?
I will move with my wife and maybe we will have a baby in the future;) and we are 33 years old.
Some of our important criteria to consider initially are:

We both can just talk in English.
My wife needs to find a job ( IT/Telecom) when we move (an English speaking)
We have a plan to get the citizenship of the target country. The duration before applying (I think this is 4 years for Finland and 8 years for Germany till now) and learning the local language should be considered.
I'm not sure about the salary because I have to select the target location first. But average salary, tax, savings, and quality of life are important.
We are both social people and love socializing with others and having outdoor activities and festivals.
We are thinking to buy a somehow big house (compare to our current apartment which is 54 sqm2) or an apartment and I think there is just apartment option in Munich because of the population.
Any other idea and criteria same as weather, economy, health care, safety, geographic location, … can be considered.

Thank you so much for your time and support.

[FinlandGirl]

I will be having a job offer that will be located in Helsinki or Munich and I have the option to choose. But I didn't visit either of them!
May you please help me and share your experience and all pros and cons of these 2 cities and countries?
I will move with my wife and maybe we will have a baby in the future;) and we are 33 years old.
Some of our important criteria to consider initially are:

We both can just talk in English.

My wife needs to find a job ( IT/Telecom) when we move (an English speaking)

In R&D it might be easier with English in Finland, for any positions that require customer interaction she will have to learn the local language before finding a job.

I'm not sure about the salary because I have to select the target location first. But average salary, tax, savings, and quality of life are important.

Average salary in IT is higher in Germany, and life in Munich is cheaper.

We are both social people and love socializing with others

Culturally Germans are much more social than Finns.

and having outdoor activities and festivals.

Cross-country skiing (Helsinki) or alpine skiing (Munich)?
Hiking in the mountains (Munich) or walking along the sea (Helsinki)?

We are thinking to buy a somehow big house (compare to our current apartment which is 54 sqm2) or an apartment and I think there is just apartment option in Munich because of the population.

Helsinki has better availability of housing options.

Do you have the money available in your bank account?
In any country banks won't give much mortgage to someone who just arrived in the country.

Any other idea and criteria same as weather, economy, health care, safety, geographic location, … can be considered.

Public healthcare tends to be better in Germany.
Both Finland and Germany are pretty safe.
Helsinki is a nice place for people who like winter, 3 months of the year you are walking on ice and snow.

[SecretCode]

and having outdoor activities and festivals.

Cross-country skiing (Helsinki) or alpine skiing (Munich)?
Hiking in the mountains (Munich) or walking along the sea (Helsinki)?

Walking across the sea in winter. Also fishing and boating in the lakes in the summer.

Helsinki is a nice place for people who like winter, 3 months of the year you are walking on ice and snow.

And for the next 2 months, wading through slush. I haven't found anyone who really enjoys that.

[FinnGuyHelsinki]

I would add, in Munich/Germany's favor:

-the geographic location, easy access to various other countries vs. Finland being (for practical purposes) almost an island
-the language to be learned, German is much more useful internationally than Finnish

[tantrum]

Germany currently doesn't allow dual citizenship (in most cases), while Finland does. Just in case keeping your current citizenship is important to you.

(There is talk that this will change in Germany though, but it's not yet official.)

[Upphew]

-the language to be learned, German is much more useful internationally than Finnish

Useful or not, but Germanic languages include German and English... might be easier to learn a language from same family than some esoteric Finno-Ugric language.

https://www.reddit.com/r/memes/comments ... king_hard/

[heretostay]

If socializing is an important part of your life, the. I would say definitely Munich over Helsinki.

[FinnGuyHelsinki]

-the language to be learned, German is much more useful internationally than Finnish

Useful or not, but Germanic languages include German and English... might be easier to learn a language from same family than some esoteric Finno-Ugric language.

https://www.reddit.com/r/memes/comments ... king_hard/

IMO the difficulty of the local language is way down on the list of things to consider. Easier to learn is a plus, sure, but still.

[FinlandGirl]

-the language to be learned, German is much more useful internationally than Finnish

Useful or not, but Germanic languages include German and English... might be easier to learn a language from same family than some esoteric Finno-Ugric language.

Learning the correct gender (masculine/feminine/neuter) for every noun in German can be a pain.
You need this when you want to say "the girl" in German since the correct word for "the" is based on the gender of "girl" (which is neuter).

[Upphew]

IMO the difficulty of the local language is way down on the list of things to consider. Easier to learn is a plus, sure, but still.

Depends how high in the list the citizenship is.

[FinnGuyHelsinki]

IMO the difficulty of the local language is way down on the list of things to consider. Easier to learn is a plus, sure, but still.

Depends how high in the list the citizenship is.

How come? Uprooting one's life and moving to another country to live there for at least several years, especially with possible future children as in the OP's case, sounds like a very good reason to learn the local language regardless. I don't understand why someone would willingly want to live in some immigrant/expat bubble.

[jperickson]

Nothing against Helsinki at all, but I happened to visit a friend in Munich late last year and wow, what an amazing city! I wanted to move there after my visit. Good luck, OP!

But FWIW I think that English is better spoken in Helsinki than it is in Munich. Not that it was a problem per se, but Helsinki is exceptional. I completely agree with the others that regardless of where you end up, you need to make an attempt at the local language. But before you do, this might be something to consider.

[Samael]

I would also consider the following details:

1. It is really hard to find an apartment to rent in Munich so one would have to consider also apartments in old houses (e.g. 1970-2000). Such apartments often don't have any ventilation system. At all! What people do is they open windows fully to ventilate, even in winter, a couple of times a day. Otherwise you deal with mold. Just google things like "deutschland schimmel", you will be surprised how widespread is this phenomenon. You go to OBI shop, you will find a whole shelf of anti-mold products. And you have to report such an issue to your landlord, but landlord most probably will blame you that you did not ventilate properly. This is a very frequent problem. Finland's old apartments (or at least most of them) do have built-in ventilation. If you still decide to go to Germany, consider apartments in newly/recently-built houses with built-in "Abluftsystem". In Munich you will pay for such apartment for a family of three around 2000 euro and more.

2. I would forget about buying property in Munich unless you have two IT (or similar) salaries. Property in Helsinki/Espoo seems to be more affordable. I would consider buying an old apartment in Finland, I would be afraid doing it in Germany.

3. Renting in Germany is weird. You have one kid, you must rent at least 3-rooms apartment (adults bedroom, kid's bedroom, common living room). No one will rent you a two-room apartment despite the fact that this does not contradict the law. Two kids - 4 rooms respectively. In Finland as I know nobody cares so much.

4. Finland allows dual citizenship.

5. Permanent residency. In Germany you leave the country for more than 6 months without a good reason - you lose your PR. In Finland the term is longer (2 years if I remember).

6. Finland has much better internet. It might seem not so important but if you are an IT guy and work from home sometimes, use VPN, attend online meetings, you will notice that German internet just sucks, not stable and expensive.

7. South Germans are a very positive, sociable and extroverted people, Not so much like people in South Europe or US but still. Munich feels and sometimes looks almost like Italy. Go for Munich if you like talking to strangers or when people greet you on the street, stand to close to you in the queue etc. If you prefer distance and silence - Finland.

8. Helsinki and Munich are so much different, almost opposite. Just visit both if possible and feel the vibe.

9. Germans are more sensible about the language and are more concentrated on their culture. Finns seem more open-minded and relaxed about it, they speak English better and I would say without any prejudice or fear.

[Kate_Reed32]

I would also consider the following details:

1. It is really hard to find an apartment to rent in Munich so one would have to consider also apartments in old houses (e.g. 1970-2000). Such apartments often don't have any ventilation system. At all! What people do is they open windows fully to ventilate, even in winter, a couple of times a day. Otherwise you deal with mold. Just google things like "deutschland schimmel", you will be surprised how widespread is this phenomenon. You go to OBI shop, you will find a whole shelf of anti-mold products. And you have to report such an issue to your landlord, but landlord most probably will blame you that you did not ventilate properly. This is a very frequent problem. Finland's old apartments (or at least most of them) do have built-in ventilation. If you still decide to go to Germany, consider apartments in newly/recently-built houses with built-in "Abluftsystem". In Munich you will pay for such apartment for a family of three around 2000 euro and more.

2. I would forget about buying property in Munich unless you have two IT (or similar) salaries. Property in Helsinki/Espoo seems to be more affordable. I would consider buying an old apartment in Finland, I would be afraid doing it in Germany.

3. Renting in Germany is weird. You have one kid, you must rent at least 3-rooms apartment (adults bedroom, kid's bedroom, common living room). No one will rent you a two-room apartment despite the fact that this does not contradict the law. Two kids - 4 rooms respectively. In Finland as I know nobody cares so much.

4. Finland allows dual citizenship.

5. Permanent residency. In Germany you leave the country for more than 6 months without a good reason - you lose your PR. In Finland the term is longer (2 years if I remember).

6. Finland has much better internet. It might seem not so important but if you are an IT guy and work from home sometimes, use VPN, attend online meetings, you will notice that German internet just sucks, not stable and expensive.

7. South Germans are a very positive, sociable and extroverted people, Not so much like people in South Europe or US but still. Munich feels and sometimes looks almost like Italy. Go for Munich if you like talking to strangers or when people greet you on the street, stand to close to you in the queue etc. If you prefer distance and silence - Finland.

8. Helsinki and Munich are so much different, almost opposite. Just visit both if possible and feel the vibe.

9. Germans are more sensible about the language and are more concentrated on their culture. Finns seem more open-minded and relaxed about it, they speak English better and I would say without any prejudice or fear.

I totally agree that the internet in Finland is better. I had to use nord VPN, when I was on a business trip in Germany

[network_engineer]

Germany. Without a doubt. Higher salaries, lower costs of living. Easier to socialise.

Finland, you'll get the first job, the second one will be based on everything name, name, and name. Competence would be the last criteria.

But of course, if you/ your wife have a very nice skill, e.g. you created ChatGPT, then you stand a slight chance.