Citizenship Application 2023

[dude238818]

https://www.change.org/p/on-against-the ... nce-and-ci

"We are a group of skilled workers, a vital part of Finland's thriving workforce, writing to express our profound concerns over the proposed changes to the country's residency requirements for Permanent Residence and Citizenship. These changes include an increase in residency requirements from 4 to 8 years for citizenship and from 4 to 6 years for permanent residency, alongside new prerequisites like language proficiency, income requirements, and a two-year work history without long-term unemployment or income support."
"We have been contributing significantly to the Finnish economy and society, and we hoped to cement our futures here."

If you are skilled worker, then income/language/work history requirement are fulfilled almost automatically.

And unless you want to move out of Finland while benefiting Finnish passport as soon as possible - waiting for eight years for citizenship shouldn't be an issue.

The only thing I can say is that these people will destroy Finland soon. Other countries are making things easier for the skilled workers to get permanent or citizenship. They could make it harder but make it easier for people who are working harder so they could encourage people who do not want to work. People will start packing soon and then they will know the importance of good immigration policy

[Schmania]

https://www.change.org/p/on-against-the ... nce-and-ci

"We are a group of skilled workers, a vital part of Finland's thriving workforce, writing to express our profound concerns over the proposed changes to the country's residency requirements for Permanent Residence and Citizenship. These changes include an increase in residency requirements from 4 to 8 years for citizenship and from 4 to 6 years for permanent residency, alongside new prerequisites like language proficiency, income requirements, and a two-year work history without long-term unemployment or income support."
"We have been contributing significantly to the Finnish economy and society, and we hoped to cement our futures here."

If you are skilled worker, then income/language/work history requirement are fulfilled almost automatically.

And unless you want to move out of Finland while benefiting Finnish passport as soon as possible - waiting for eight years for citizenship shouldn't be an issue.

You are being too simplistic if not completely wrong. Imagine a situation where you lost your job because of the company issues, not your skills. And you failed to find a job in Finland in three months. It very often takes much longer than that even in normal circumstances. What if you lost your job in May? No way you’re getting a new one on time. What if you have family and kids who go to school here and integrate, and then all of you get deported. Should I have been a skilled worker considering to come here, with all my sympathy for Finland, I might very well consider the risks being to high for me and my family wellbeing.

Those who decide to stay (not skilled but regular workers especially, though it affects everyone) will be so afraid to loose their jobs that they will have to conform with whatever happens at their workplace which generates lots of possibilities for abuse at work.

[RandomDude]

You are being too simplistic if not completely wrong. Imagine a situation where you lost your job because of the company issues, not your skills. And you failed to find a job in Finland in three months. It very often takes much longer than that even in normal circumstances. What if you lost your job in May? No way you’re getting a new one on time. What if you have family and kids who go to school here and integrate, and then all of you get deported. Should I have been a skilled worker considering to come here, with all my sympathy for Finland, I might very well consider the risks being to high for me and my family wellbeing.

Those who decide to stay (not skilled but regular workers especially, though it affects everyone) will be so afraid to loose their jobs that they will have to conform with whatever happens at their workplace which generates lots of possibilities for abuse at work.

There's some contradiction in your examples. If a person loses a job (not matter why) and cannot find a new one in three months - that just means this person's skills are not really demanded by Finnish labour market.

[FinlandGirl]

What if you have family and kids who go to school here and integrate, and then all of you get deported.

If you have family and kids, you will still be eligible for a permanent residence permit after 4 years.

The 40k limit is not really higher than the income requirement for a family with 2 children.

[37yqp8098y5]

Will these changes “when they get into force” impact us who are waiting for our applications to be processed?

Likely no. I would say even definitely no. It wouldn't be fair. We applied when laws were different, they have to honor the original reasons we applied under.

Well i got citizenship but now i am afraid that at some point will lose it cause i have 2.

Why? Nowhere does it say you can't have 2 passports in Finland. I doubt that will ever change. If anything, any change will affect Finns getting a second citizenship (losing Finnish) and not those who already had one before getting it from Finland.

This is not below the average salary at all. In fact, many native Finns live their whole lives without making that amount per year.

Maybe they should get a better job and stop living on benefits and being a waste of space? You can make €10,000 a month as a freaking self-employed carpenter. I just paid a guy 1 month ago €200 to install gym rings in my apartment. €150 for drilling a few holes professionally and with a license and making sure he wasn't going through any power lines and €50 more to do it within this week instead of in 4 weeks because he was booked out. The guy is making more money than I am, but he said that he's often pretty sore.

In short, get a better job, get an education and stop slacking. We're all sick of paying freeloaders. These changes are great. No one should get residency or citizenship if they are a drain on the economy. As the other guy said, if you aren't even making €3,300 and you aren't a student or completely disabled. Then you aren't working hard enough and it's your own fault that you aren't making at least €4,000. One of my best mates just got a €6000 salary as a UI/UX engineer after only 2 years of working in the field. If you're under the average salary, get off your ass and work harder.

Anyone who signs that petition is a slacker or kela worm. They aren't going to listen to 5,000 signatures out of 5.5 million people, that's 0.09% of the population lmao.

I have a Japanese colleague on a B-permit who's worried. I have a Iranian friend who's a student and also working part-time who's worried. Even if my situation is fine, I care about them.

Then find them a better job and tell them to work it if you care so much. How about you start caring about this f##king country that you want citizenship from not going down the drain because of your lazy-ass friends who can't even make above average pay? Finland doesn't need these worthless hotel cleaners and street sweepers coming from Somalia. We need ACTUAL skilled workers from overseas, or nothing. As the other guy said, if you are SKILLED indeed then there is already a visa for you to come here on where you get paid minimum €5800 a month which is well above the €3300 requirement for a permit. Entry-level jobs should be for CITIZENS only as a way into the workforce after they get out of school so they are not an immediate drain on the economy. Every country has basic labor jobs for these reasons, they are not for your friend's Indonesian mail-order bride.

Anyone against this change isn't Finnish, I don't give a rat's what their new citizenship status says. The only people against this are unskilled, lazy migrants and welfare refugees who are going to be a lifetime net negative on our economy.

Government should make it EASIER for REAL SKILLED people to move here (which they are doing thankfully) and near f¤¤king impossible for any low IQ person without any degree, formal education or work experience. Finland was never meant to be a welfare state.

[37yqp8098y5]

Not sure why it triple posted.

P.S. It was previously made easier (6 years to 5) https://yle.fi/a/3-5416328
Under the retarded socialist govt. It's about time that we slow down on the uptake. As we are all aware Migri can't even process the applications they already have. Why anyone would want to keep things the way they are (which people complain about all day already) is beyond me.

They should have made it 10 years. Most people who haven't spent a decade here usually still suck ass at the language.

[mimosuomi]

Maybe they should get a better job and stop living on benefits and being a waste of space? You can make €10,000 a month as a freaking self-employed carpenter. I just paid a guy 1 month ago €200 to install gym rings in my apartment. €150 for drilling a few holes professionally and with a license and making sure he wasn't going through any power lines and €50 more to do it within this week instead of in 4 weeks because he was booked out. The guy is making more money than I am, but he said that he's often pretty sore.

I'm only wondering how the market toilets will smell after all the foreign cleaning workers will leave the country cz they can't afford the 40k a year, or the undelivered Helsingin sanomat after midnight, or the home cleaning services... etc

It's not an automatic process, that: you got skills, okay, you'll find a job. You definitely should check the hundreds of foreign master graduates that work in these jobs

[Schmania]

You are being too simplistic if not completely wrong. Imagine a situation where you lost your job because of the company issues, not your skills. And you failed to find a job in Finland in three months. It very often takes much longer than that even in normal circumstances. What if you lost your job in May? No way you’re getting a new one on time. What if you have family and kids who go to school here and integrate, and then all of you get deported. Should I have been a skilled worker considering to come here, with all my sympathy for Finland, I might very well consider the risks being to high for me and my family wellbeing.

Those who decide to stay (not skilled but regular workers especially, though it affects everyone) will be so afraid to loose their jobs that they will have to conform with whatever happens at their workplace which generates lots of possibilities for abuse at work.

There's some contradiction in your examples. If a person loses a job (not matter why) and cannot find a new one in three months - that just means this person's skills are not really demanded by Finnish labour market.

You clearly didn’t have enough experience. I am a high skilled worker, my hiring process in Rovio took 4 months because of their internal HR processes.

[Schmania]

Wow guys, it’s just sad for me to see that people who seemingly are supposed to understand the restrictions and hurdles of working abroad, since we are in the same forum, are so aggressively defending making the workers life here more difficult.
I am just in awe, I am not going to take part in this populist discussion anymore.

[RandomDude]

You clearly didn’t have enough experience. I am a high skilled worker, my hiring process in Rovio took 4 months because of their internal HR processes.

I think you wouldn't argue that you could easily find many faster options even while being recruited by Rovio. Because you are skilled worker that is demanded by the job market.

[FinlandGirl]

You clearly didn’t have enough experience. I am a high skilled worker, my hiring process in Rovio took 4 months because of their internal HR processes.

4 month is an insanely long duration, your experience is quite far from what everyone else experiences in Finland.

Usually it is one job interview, and a job offer would come within a few hours or days after that.

[browndude]

You are being too simplistic if not completely wrong. Imagine a situation where you lost your job because of the company issues, not your skills. And you failed to find a job in Finland in three months. It very often takes much longer than that even in normal circumstances. What if you lost your job in May? No way you’re getting a new one on time. What if you have family and kids who go to school here and integrate, and then all of you get deported. Should I have been a skilled worker considering to come here, with all my sympathy for Finland, I might very well consider the risks being to high for me and my family wellbeing.

Those who decide to stay (not skilled but regular workers especially, though it affects everyone) will be so afraid to loose their jobs that they will have to conform with whatever happens at their workplace which generates lots of possibilities for abuse at work.

There's some contradiction in your examples. If a person loses a job (not matter why) and cannot find a new one in three months - that just means this person's skills are not really demanded by Finnish labour market.

You clearly didn’t have enough experience. I am a high skilled worker, my hiring process in Rovio took 4 months because of their internal HR processes.

I saw something in there about reducing the processing time for applications of highly skilled workers down to one week. The idea is to limit low-skilled immigration and increase high-skill immigration.

[FinlandGirl]

You clearly didn’t have enough experience. I am a high skilled worker, my hiring process in Rovio took 4 months because of their internal HR processes.

I saw something in there about reducing the processing time for applications of highly skilled workers down to one week.

Highly skilled workers already have an expected processing time of 2 weeks, and they don't have to wait for the decision to start working.

But that doesn't help when someone is applying at a !"#¤% company that needs 4 months to decide whether to hire an applicant.

[Auringon_kukka]

Link to petition on change.org?

I have glanced at the section in the government's program on the proposed changes to permanent residency and citizenship. I see the following: "Selvitetään mahdollisuudet siirtyä kaksoiskansalaisuusjärjestelmän osalta vastavuoroisuusperiaatteeseen huomioiden lapsen oikeudet ja
perheoikeudelliset kysymykset."

So, loosely translated, they want to explore options for transitioning from a dual-citizenship system to one based on the principle of reciprocity, taking children's rights and family-law issues into account. To me the language is vague. Anyone care to clarify?

Wtf would be the point of this? And do they realize they will be shooting themselves in the foot? Lots of “native” Finns have dual citizenships.

The point is probably to not have Russian citizens having dual-citizenship. Like "pick a side".
Nepal, Japan, Indonesia and a few other countries don't allow double-citizenship either, so their citizens either choose to lose their native citizenship or just live forever abroad on a permanent residence permit. It's all about choices.

Thanks for your reply. Makes sense.

Interestingly, Germany, which is also competing for skilled and unskilled workers, is on the verge of relaxing its citizenship requirements. Instead of eight years, people will be able to apply for citizenship after five (minimum of B1 on language test) or three years (minimum of C1 on language test / exceptional integration efforts), respectively. And in an even bigger move, dual citizenship will be allowed for the first time. So, while Germany (population approx. 84 million) is moving in one direction, the Nordic countries (e.g., Finland, Sweden) are taking the opposite tack.

[browndude]

You clearly didn’t have enough experience. I am a high skilled worker, my hiring process in Rovio took 4 months because of their internal HR processes.

I saw something in there about reducing the processing time for applications of highly skilled workers down to one week.

Highly skilled workers already have an expected processing time of 2 weeks, and they don't have to wait for the decision to start working.

But that doesn't help when someone is applying at a !"#¤% company that needs 4 months to decide whether to hire an applicant.

Yeah, if it really takes that long to make a decision, the company is probably not functioning very well.