Citizenship Application 2023

[browndude]

Link to petition on change.org?

I have glanced at the section in the government's program on the proposed changes to permanent residency and citizenship. I see the following: "Selvitetään mahdollisuudet siirtyä kaksoiskansalaisuusjärjestelmän osalta vastavuoroisuusperiaatteeseen huomioiden lapsen oikeudet ja
perheoikeudelliset kysymykset."

So, loosely translated, they want to explore options for transitioning from a dual-citizenship system to one based on the principle of reciprocity, taking children's rights and family-law issues into account. To me the language is vague. Anyone care to clarify?

Wtf would be the point of this? And do they realize they will be shooting themselves in the foot? Lots of “native” Finns have dual citizenships.

The point is probably to not have Russian citizens having dual-citizenship. Like "pick a side".
Nepal, Japan, Indonesia and a few other countries don't allow double-citizenship either, so their citizens either choose to lose their native citizenship or just live forever abroad on a permanent residence permit. It's all about choices.

Yep, a lot of this is about the Russians in Finland. The logic that Putin used went something like if you have enough Russians living somewhere, then, then that place is part of Russia.

[browndude]

Wtf would be the point of this? And do they realize they will be shooting themselves in the foot? Lots of “native” Finns have dual citizenships.

The point is probably to not have Russian citizens having dual-citizenship. Like "pick a side".
Nepal, Japan, Indonesia and a few other countries don't allow double-citizenship either, so their citizens either choose to lose their native citizenship or just live forever abroad on a permanent residence permit. It's all about choices.

Yep, a lot of this is about the Russians in Finland. The logic that Putin used to go into Ukraine went something like if you have enough Russians living somewhere, then that place is part of Russia.

[37yqp8098y5]

You clearly didn’t have enough experience. I am a high skilled worker, my hiring process in Rovio took 4 months because of their internal HR processes.

Not every company is equal. You should have found out beforehand and asked how long does the process take or looked on Glassdoor etc. for previous examples. The only time I have ever waited that long during recruitment was at CGI but they and pwc are notorious for extremely rigorous process.

Wow guys, it’s just sad for me to see that people who seemingly are supposed to understand the restrictions and hurdles of working abroad, since we are in the same forum, are so aggressively defending making the workers life here more difficult.
I am just in awe, I am not going to take part in this populist discussion anymore.

Your post reads like "Oh no, why is it that people are so against freeloaders in this country. I don't even have any arguments to defend my opinion that we should keep borders open and the relaxed rules that we have had now for eleven years!"

Ok then bye.

But that doesn't help when someone is applying at a !"#¤% company that needs 4 months to decide whether to hire an applicant.

It's on the applicant to ask about the time and bail out of the application process if it is going to take too long. When in the future there is a 3 month requirement, likely companies will endeavor to make it faster for this very reason. Moreover, you should be able to tell them of the situation and ask for it to be expedited.

Generally all of my job applications were finalized and approved within 2-3 weeks tops. If you are stupidly letting a company spend 4 months interviewing other people who can take your position from you. Then it's your own fault.

[Porridge]

Have you seen the movie Django? If so, you might remember a character named Stephen. It's interesting how some people around us resemble him, supporting those who don't truly want them in the first place. The new anti-immigrant government proposal is being hailed by some here as the best thing ever, but it will only lead to bigger issues like dividing the nation and spreading more unfairness. Before passing judgment, let me provide some context: I work as a manager in a prominent international company. From my experience, I can assure you that the three-month notice period will be used against any skilled specialist who wishes to come to Finland with their family, instilling fear and uncertainty. Contrary to what some may argue, finding a job as a specialist is not easy. They usually work in highly specialized fields, making it challenging for both employers and employees to connect initially. Moreover, if a company doesn't perform well or decides to close down a department where a specialist is employed, finding another job within three months becomes a daunting task. As a Finnish citizen, I have genuine concerns regarding honest foreigners who come here to contribute positively to our country. I sincerely hope this proposal doesn't go through for the sake of everyone involved.

[RandomDude]

Meanwhile 15 months in stage 1, queue number 21xx.

[Auringon_kukka]

Meanwhile 15 months in stage 1, queue number 21xx.

I sympathize... 10 months in stage 1 and 35xx in queue for me...

[No_doo]

Meanwhile 15 months in stage 1, queue number 21xx.

I sympathize... 10 months in stage 1 and 35xx in queue for me...

12.5 months, still in stage 1 and the queue number is 31xx

[mamutti]

Meanwhile 15 months in stage 1, queue number 21xx.

I sympathize... 10 months in stage 1 and 35xx in queue for me...

12.5 months, still in stage 1 and the queue number is 31xx

Now around 9,5 months in stage 1, still waiting… Seems like we all will have to wait >=18 months for the decision, as not so many people (if any) got the decision after 6-9, but before 18 months…

[37yqp8098y5]

The new anti-immigrant government proposal is being hailed by some here as the best thing ever, but it will only lead to bigger issues like dividing the nation and spreading more unfairness.

How exactly? The contrary is that quite a few people here have expressed a lot of ways that this will actually help.

Before passing judgment, let me provide some context: I work as a manager in a prominent international company. From my experience, I can assure you that the three-month notice period will be used against any skilled specialist who wishes to come to Finland with their family, instilling fear and uncertainty.

So your argument is based on nothing but conjecture and fear-mongering?

Contrary to what some may argue, finding a job as a specialist is not easy.

People are not supposed to move to Finland before having a job! There is already a skilled worker visa which anyone can come here easily and get very fast tracked decision and even the cost is lower than normal permit. So you are just completely wrong. If you lose your job after moving here, then it's your own fault for not reading the signs of your company and economy health and that is the risk you took by moving here. No one should move here without at least having good employment that prevents them from being a drain on the system when they land here.

They usually work in highly specialized fields, making it challenging for both employers and employees to talk initially.

Nonsense. In the future the most likely thing to happen is that these companies would absolutely get off their ass in order to make sure that all decisions happened within this 3 month timeframe rather than wasting someone's time and the company effectively having wasted their own time and money and now losing their chance to hire that person.

Moreover, if a company doesn't perform well or decides to close down a department where a specialist is employed, finding another job within three months becomes a daunting task.

Too bad. That's the way of the world, get an unemployment union then. They are open to everyone, regardless of your citizenship status. If you lose your job and have sat on your ass the entire time watching Netflix without networking and upskilling and keeping yourself competitive, then you have no one to blame except yourself. Firstly, a company will usually furlough someone which isn't the same as firing them. It means that for a short period of time, they will have no work and therefore no pay > they should be covered by any unemployment union they were smart enough to get. They can also immediately start looking for another job and start another job immediately if they choose, but they STILL have an open contract which would stop them from being deported. So the 3 month time hasn't even started for them.

Secondly, almost always, before laying someone off a company will offer them another position in the company. So they simply change roles and potentially change salaries. In some cases a person can get a promotion if their previous position becomes redundant.

Clearly you haven't thought about this much at all. It's supposed to make Finland an undesirable place to move if the only concern is the immigrant living off benefits. No one should be moving here without a job, you can still get a job. Anyone can. Highly skilled people can come here almost immediately and get a decision in mere weeks. The same govt. people are complaining about just put in the highly skilled visa.

[37yqp8098y5]

.

[sealgat]

Wtf would be the point of this? And do they realize they will be shooting themselves in the foot? Lots of “native” Finns have dual citizenships.

The point is probably to not have Russian citizens having dual-citizenship. Like "pick a side".
Nepal, Japan, Indonesia and a few other countries don't allow double-citizenship either, so their citizens either choose to lose their native citizenship or just live forever abroad on a permanent residence permit. It's all about choices.

Thanks for your reply. Makes sense.

Interestingly, Germany, which is also competing for skilled and unskilled workers, is on the verge of relaxing its citizenship requirements. Instead of eight years, people will be able to apply for citizenship after five (minimum of B1 on language test) or three years (minimum of C1 on language test / exceptional integration efforts), respectively. And in an even bigger move, dual citizenship will be allowed for the first time. So, while Germany (population approx. 84 million) is moving in one direction, the Nordic countries (e.g., Finland, Sweden) are taking the opposite tack.

not saying, that Germany is much more nice in terms of living prices, job search, events etc
even the fact, that here you cannot buy a wine on weekend just because local alcoholics need these alcohol restriction sucks...
in Germany you can buy nice wine in supermarket...
not speaking about other food choices...
and climate...
and train trips to France, Switzerland, Italy - all is nearby, and here we have only boring Sweden...

well the good thing is that this retarded government is going also to restrict rights of Finnish unemployed as well
so I suppose left will be back in 4 years,

[37yqp8098y5]

You won't see the left in power for at least another 10 years. The govt. has been leaning right for the last more than decade.

This change doesn't effect Finns at all. We have a huge network of support. Other Finns, unemployment unions, networking, family etc.

[sealgat]

What if you have family and kids who go to school here and integrate, and then all of you get deported.

If you have family and kids, you will still be eligible for a permanent residence permit after 4 years.

The 40k limit is not really higher than the income requirement for a family with 2 children.

40k? I work in university and have around 36k. Many people are international researchers with children and they support their family on this salary. I think nurses (and this job is important) get even less.

[kalaizanala]

You are being too simplistic if not completely wrong. Imagine a situation where you lost your job because of the company issues, not your skills. And you failed to find a job in Finland in three months. It very often takes much longer than that even in normal circumstances. What if you lost your job in May? No way you’re getting a new one on time. What if you have family and kids who go to school here and integrate, and then all of you get deported. Should I have been a skilled worker considering to come here, with all my sympathy for Finland, I might very well consider the risks being to high for me and my family wellbeing.

Those who decide to stay (not skilled but regular workers especially, though it affects everyone) will be so afraid to loose their jobs that they will have to conform with whatever happens at their workplace which generates lots of possibilities for abuse at work.

There's some contradiction in your examples. If a person loses a job (not matter why) and cannot find a new one in three months - that just means this person's skills are not really demanded by Finnish labour market.

You clearly didn’t have enough experience. I am a high skilled worker, my hiring process in Rovio took 4 months because of their internal HR processes.

I agree with dear friend Schmania. My professional occupation and skills are really demanded in Finland, but I was able to be officially employed in about 5 months after my graduation. All because the fact that I graduated in May and when I started to look for a job most of companies had summer holidays. But starting from September I had six job interview invitations. Three months is really nothing for finding a job in Finland. I would say that even 6 months is not enough.

[FinlandGirl]

My professional occupation and skills are really demanded in Finland, but I was able to be officially employed in about 5 months after my graduation. All because the fact that I graduated in May and when I started to look for a job most of companies had summer holidays. But starting from September I had six job interview invitations. Three months is really nothing for finding a job in Finland. I would say that even 6 months is not enough.

This sounds as if you didn't start looking for a job in May, which is your fault.
June and July can be problematic, most people are back at the office in August.

If your employer announces YT negotiations tomorrow, you will have at least 4 months until you would reach 3 months of unemployment.