Getting a Visa to Finland to marry

[Dudu-penyu]

Hi Everyone,

I’m a Finnish man, and my partner is an Indonesian woman. We've been together for 9 months, and we're eager to get married in Finland and start our life here. However, we’re facing some challenges in getting her to Finland.

We applied for a 90-day Visitor Visa for her, and I provided Proof of Sponsorship to show that I can financially support her during her stay. Unfortunately, we were surprised to receive a rejection.

The two reasons given for the rejection were:

1. No proof that she is in a position to lawfully acquire sufficient means of subsistence for the duration of the intended stay.
2. Reasonable doubts about her intention to leave the country after her stay.

We didn't mention anything about getting married in the visa application, as we believed that shouldn't be the primary intention for a visitor visa. Should we have been more upfront about our plans to marry?

We're now unsure of our next steps. Should we appeal the visa decision, reapply for a different type of visa, or consider applying for a Residence Permit based on Intimate Relationship? We're also puzzled by the reason for rejection, especially since I’m sponsoring her financially.

Has anyone faced a similar situation? Would it be more effective to appeal or reapply? Any advice or shared experiences would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

[browndude]

Apparently there were sufficient red flags for them to suspect that the intention for her visit would be to stay here already. Without knowing the particulars it is hard to say what you could have done differently. Is there a large age gap between you two? What is her financial/empolyment situation in Indonesia? etc.. Was your intention to get married during the visit?

[Dudu-penyu]

Apparently there were sufficient red flags for them to suspect that the intention for her visit would be to stay here already. Without knowing the particulars it is hard to say what you could have done differently. Is there a large age gap between you two? What is her financial/empolyment situation in Indonesia? etc.. Was your intention to get married during the visit?

What could be the red flags in our application? Is it related to the requested length of stay of 90 days, or is it because I am sponsoring her while we are not yet family-related (not yet husband and wife)

She has a stable job in Indonesia and earns her own income. The only noticeable issue might be that her job contract ends within two weeks before her arrival, which means she will be leaving her job with no intention of renewing the contract. We also don’t have a significant age gap—only two years (30 and 32).

Our intention is to get married once she arrives using the visitor visa. Does this cross any guidelines in this case?

[quillcentaur]

Hi Everyone,

I’m a Finnish man, and my partner is an Indonesian woman. We've been together for 9 months, and we're eager to get married in Finland and start our life here. However, we’re facing some challenges in getting her to Finland.

We applied for a 90-day Visitor Visa for her, and I provided Proof of Sponsorship to show that I can financially support her during her stay. Unfortunately, we were surprised to receive a rejection.

The two reasons given for the rejection were:

1. No proof that she is in a position to lawfully acquire sufficient means of subsistence for the duration of the intended stay.
2. Reasonable doubts about her intention to leave the country after her stay.

We didn't mention anything about getting married in the visa application, as we believed that shouldn't be the primary intention for a visitor visa. Should we have been more upfront about our plans to marry?

We're now unsure of our next steps. Should we appeal the visa decision, reapply for a different type of visa, or consider applying for a Residence Permit based on Intimate Relationship? We're also puzzled by the reason for rejection, especially since I’m sponsoring her financially.

Has anyone faced a similar situation? Would it be more effective to appeal or reapply? Any advice or shared experiences would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

Sponsoring financially doesn’t easily work for visa application, in my experience. I wrote something like that for my sister and she was rejected. It’s best if her own bank account has the money needed. Ideally 120€/day since that’s the biggest requirement I saw in Schengen visa requirements (France). Finland officially requires lower but of course the more money in the bank, the better.

Also you are not married, so the government can’t really obligate you to financially support her so writing that you will do it doesn’t really mean anything in govt’s pov.

If your gf has no work and no assets in her own country, it’s really likely she won’t get approved.

Prob the best thing to do is for her to try to get the Intimate Relationship rp. Just note that it can take really long before receiving decision sometimes. Or try again the Schengen visa first but need to address the problems you mentioned.

It’s not ideal to say she’s coming to Finland to get married because Schengen visa is for visiting and the purpose is to only stay temporarily.

[Winchester1405]

Hi Everyone,

I’m a Finnish man, and my partner is an Indonesian woman. We've been together for 9 months, and we're eager to get married in Finland and start our life here. However, we’re facing some challenges in getting her to Finland.

We applied for a 90-day Visitor Visa for her, and I provided Proof of Sponsorship to show that I can financially support her during her stay. Unfortunately, we were surprised to receive a rejection.

The two reasons given for the rejection were:

1. No proof that she is in a position to lawfully acquire sufficient means of subsistence for the duration of the intended stay.
2. Reasonable doubts about her intention to leave the country after her stay.

We didn't mention anything about getting married in the visa application, as we believed that shouldn't be the primary intention for a visitor visa. Should we have been more upfront about our plans to marry?

We're now unsure of our next steps. Should we appeal the visa decision, reapply for a different type of visa, or consider applying for a Residence Permit based on Intimate Relationship? We're also puzzled by the reason for rejection, especially since I’m sponsoring her financially.

Has anyone faced a similar situation? Would it be more effective to appeal or reapply? Any advice or shared experiences would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

As someone from a non-EU country who is married to a Finnish citizen. Let me tell you that the most straight forward way to get married is for you to go to Indonesia and get married there. Then she can apply for a spouse RP. But keep in mind that marrying in Indonesia will not be easy and will require a lot of effort and red tape. But from personal experience i can tell you that yes while it's not the most efficient way, it is definitely the most effective way.

[browndude]

Apparently there were sufficient red flags for them to suspect that the intention for her visit would be to stay here already. Without knowing the particulars it is hard to say what you could have done differently. Is there a large age gap between you two? What is her financial/empolyment situation in Indonesia? etc.. Was your intention to get married during the visit?

What could be the red flags in our application? Is it related to the requested length of stay of 90 days, or is it because I am sponsoring her while we are not yet family-related (not yet husband and wife)

She has a stable job in Indonesia and earns her own income. The only noticeable issue might be that her job contract ends within two weeks before her arrival, which means she will be leaving her job with no intention of renewing the contract. We also don’t have a significant age gap—only two years (30 and 32).

Our intention is to get married once she arrives using the visitor visa. Does this cross any guidelines in this case?

The fact that her job ends a few weeks before she was due to arrive is a pretty big red-flag. Also, perhaps you already know this, you need to have various documents from the foreign country ready if a foreign citizen wants to marry a Finn in Finland e.g. https://www.minilex.fi/a/avioliitto-ulk ... sen-kanssa. Unfortunately, these rules are quite strict and have gotten even stricter now. The time for researching things was before you applied for the visa but now, since they rejected it, it is more complicated. One way to proceed might be to get married in Indonesia and apply for a spousal residency permit. In my case-this was many, many years ago-I was non EU who got married to a Finn in Finland (I already had a Schengen residency permit from another country at the time), lived abroad for a year and came to Finland with a schengen visa for spouses. After arriving in Finland, I applied for and got a residence permit for family members

[Dudu-penyu]

Sponsoring financially doesn’t easily work for visa application, in my experience. I wrote something like that for my sister and she was rejected. It’s best if her own bank account has the money needed. Ideally 120€/day since that’s the biggest requirement I saw in Schengen visa requirements (France). Finland officially requires lower but of course the more money in the bank, the better.

Also you are not married, so the government can’t really obligate you to financially support her so writing that you will do it doesn’t really mean anything in govt’s pov.

If your gf has no work and no assets in her own country, it’s really likely she won’t get approved.

Prob the best thing to do is for her to try to get the Intimate Relationship rp. Just note that it can take really long before receiving decision sometimes. Or try again the Schengen visa first but need to address the problems you mentioned.

It’s not ideal to say she’s coming to Finland to get married because Schengen visa is for visiting and the purpose is to only stay temporarily.

We thought sponsoring would be allowed as there specifically is a form they have for it and we did everything by that one and I got it signed at Public Notary: https://um.fi/documents/35732/0/yll%C3% ... 4706041856
That is why we were so surprised if one of the denying reasons related to "No proof that she is in position to lawfully acquire sufficient means of subsistence for the duration of the intended stay". If it is not possible for me to do so, they could state such thing in that document...

As someone from a non-EU country who is married to a Finnish citizen. Let me tell you that the most straight forward way to get married is for you to go to Indonesia and get married there. Then she can apply for a spouse RP. But keep in mind that marrying in Indonesia will not be easy and will require a lot of effort and red tape. But from personal experience i can tell you that yes while it's not the most efficient way, it is definitely the most effective way.

The fact that her job ends a few weeks before she was due to arrive is a pretty big red-flag. Also, perhaps you already know this, you need to have various documents from the foreign country ready if a foreign citizen wants to marry a Finn in Finland e.g. https://www.minilex.fi/a/avioliitto-ulk ... sen-kanssa. Unfortunately, these rules are quite strict and have gotten even stricter now. The time for researching things was before you applied for the visa but now, since they rejected it, it is more complicated. One way to proceed might be to get married in Indonesia and apply for a spousal residency permit. In my case-this was many, many years ago-I was non EU who got married to a Finn in Finland (I already had a Schengen residency permit from another country at the time), lived abroad for a year and came to Finland with a schengen visa for spouses. After arriving in Finland, I applied for and got a residence permit for family members

Getting married in Indonesia has another complication related to both parties having to be of the same religion or to convert, and right now that is standing in the way of that plan. They do not do civil marriages in Indonesia, only religious ones.

We do understand that one possibility is to apply for RP based on Intimate Relationship, but there is also an issue that for a permit for one year, they require her bank account to hold 12000 EUR accessible money. Based on a call to Migri, they said that on rare exception cases they can give exceptions to that based on my funds and income, but there would not be any guarantees. I don't know if it is possible to apply for that RP for shorter amount of time than one year while explaining in the application that our purpose is to marry in Finland and then get the spousal RP. Then it would lower the required money amount to possible rates.
Would anyone know if the RP can be for shorter time and for how short duration it could be?

Another alternative that we were now thinking is to get married in Denmark. At least by some research it seems to be something that many international couples do as the process is apparently quite easy and even the same form for "impediments to marriage" applies to all Nordic countries. There are many sites that I found that offer info and services on this, e.g. https://www.nordicadventureweddings.eu/ ... ed-to-know
Here the question becomes in getting a visa to Denmark. We are thinking that a tourist visa could be approved as it will be for a shorter stay and her account would have the necessary funds for the duration. Our current thinking is to also explain in the visa application that we are going to marry in Denmark. I would believe that the suspicion that she would not return to Indonesia should also be reduced as she is coming to a country where she cannot apply for the spousal RP.
Does anyone have experience or thoughts for this plan?

Thank you all so far for the helpful answers!

[quillcentaur]

I understand the frustration but unfortunately it’s really like that when someone is from a developing country because a lot of people don’t go back and they overstay. Which is understandable but still sucks.

Honestly it would be mainly the lack of strong ties to her country. I had money in my own account before but was still getting rejected when applying for visa in some countries.

I know an Indonesian who got married in Indonesia. The guy changed his religion but he didn’t really care since he’s actually atheist. It was just formality for him.

I only know 1 year for intimate relationship rp.

[betelgeuse]

We thought sponsoring would be allowed as there specifically is a form they have for it and we did everything by that one and I got it signed at Public Notary: https://um.fi/documents/35732/0/yll%C3% ... 4706041856
That is why we were so surprised if one of the denying reasons related to "No proof that she is in position to lawfully acquire sufficient means of subsistence for the duration of the intended stay". If it is not possible for me to do so, they could state such thing in that document...

This seems like grounds for appeal. At least they would be required to give better justifications. You would still have to overcome the doubt about return. Did have flights booked yet? This of course runs the risk that the tickets can't be used.

Here the question becomes in getting a visa to Denmark. We are thinking that a tourist visa could be approved as it will be for a shorter stay and her account would have the necessary funds for the duration. Our current thinking is to also explain in the visa application that we are going to marry in Denmark. I would believe that the suspicion that she would not return to Indonesia should also be reduced as she is coming to a country where she cannot apply for the spousal RP.
Does anyone have experience or thoughts for this plan?

The Danish authorities are supposed to evaluate whether you will overstay inside Schengen so this includes the possibility of travelling to Finland and staying in Finland. What they will do in practise, I don't know.

[inkku]

Sponsoring financially doesn’t easily work for visa application, in my experience. I wrote something like that for my sister and she was rejected. It’s best if her own bank account has the money needed. Ideally 120€/day since that’s the biggest requirement I saw in Schengen visa requirements (France). Finland officially requires lower but of course the more money in the bank, the better.

Also you are not married, so the government can’t really obligate you to financially support her so writing that you will do it doesn’t really mean anything in govt’s pov.

If your gf has no work and no assets in her own country, it’s really likely she won’t get approved.

Prob the best thing to do is for her to try to get the Intimate Relationship rp. Just note that it can take really long before receiving decision sometimes. Or try again the Schengen visa first but need to address the problems you mentioned.

It’s not ideal to say she’s coming to Finland to get married because Schengen visa is for visiting and the purpose is to only stay temporarily.

We thought sponsoring would be allowed as there specifically is a form they have for it and we did everything by that one and I got it signed at Public Notary: https://um.fi/documents/35732/0/yll%C3% ... 4706041856
That is why we were so surprised if one of the denying reasons related to "No proof that she is in position to lawfully acquire sufficient means of subsistence for the duration of the intended stay". If it is not possible for me to do so, they could state such thing in that document...

As someone from a non-EU country who is married to a Finnish citizen. Let me tell you that the most straight forward way to get married is for you to go to Indonesia and get married there. Then she can apply for a spouse RP. But keep in mind that marrying in Indonesia will not be easy and will require a lot of effort and red tape. But from personal experience i can tell you that yes while it's not the most efficient way, it is definitely the most effective way.

The fact that her job ends a few weeks before she was due to arrive is a pretty big red-flag. Also, perhaps you already know this, you need to have various documents from the foreign country ready if a foreign citizen wants to marry a Finn in Finland e.g. https://www.minilex.fi/a/avioliitto-ulk ... sen-kanssa. Unfortunately, these rules are quite strict and have gotten even stricter now. The time for researching things was before you applied for the visa but now, since they rejected it, it is more complicated. One way to proceed might be to get married in Indonesia and apply for a spousal residency permit. In my case-this was many, many years ago-I was non EU who got married to a Finn in Finland (I already had a Schengen residency permit from another country at the time), lived abroad for a year and came to Finland with a schengen visa for spouses. After arriving in Finland, I applied for and got a residence permit for family members

Getting married in Indonesia has another complication related to both parties having to be of the same religion or to convert, and right now that is standing in the way of that plan. They do not do civil marriages in Indonesia, only religious ones.

We do understand that one possibility is to apply for RP based on Intimate Relationship, but there is also an issue that for a permit for one year, they require her bank account to hold 12000 EUR accessible money. Based on a call to Migri, they said that on rare exception cases they can give exceptions to that based on my funds and income, but there would not be any guarantees. I don't know if it is possible to apply for that RP for shorter amount of time than one year while explaining in the application that our purpose is to marry in Finland and then get the spousal RP. Then it would lower the required money amount to possible rates.
Would anyone know if the RP can be for shorter time and for how short duration it could be?

Another alternative that we were now thinking is to get married in Denmark. At least by some research it seems to be something that many international couples do as the process is apparently quite easy and even the same form for "impediments to marriage" applies to all Nordic countries. There are many sites that I found that offer info and services on this, e.g. https://www.nordicadventureweddings.eu/ ... ed-to-know
Here the question becomes in getting a visa to Denmark. We are thinking that a tourist visa could be approved as it will be for a shorter stay and her account would have the necessary funds for the duration. Our current thinking is to also explain in the visa application that we are going to marry in Denmark. I would believe that the suspicion that she would not return to Indonesia should also be reduced as she is coming to a country where she cannot apply for the spousal RP.
Does anyone have experience or thoughts for this plan?

Thank you all so far for the helpful answers!

Hi, i have facilitated several young unmarried persons to get a schengen visa, if you want to chat about my experience and what i have learned, send me a pm.

[Winchester1405]

Sponsoring financially doesn’t easily work for visa application, in my experience. I wrote something like that for my sister and she was rejected. It’s best if her own bank account has the money needed. Ideally 120€/day since that’s the biggest requirement I saw in Schengen visa requirements (France). Finland officially requires lower but of course the more money in the bank, the better.

Also you are not married, so the government can’t really obligate you to financially support her so writing that you will do it doesn’t really mean anything in govt’s pov.

If your gf has no work and no assets in her own country, it’s really likely she won’t get approved.

Prob the best thing to do is for her to try to get the Intimate Relationship rp. Just note that it can take really long before receiving decision sometimes. Or try again the Schengen visa first but need to address the problems you mentioned.

It’s not ideal to say she’s coming to Finland to get married because Schengen visa is for visiting and the purpose is to only stay temporarily.

We thought sponsoring would be allowed as there specifically is a form they have for it and we did everything by that one and I got it signed at Public Notary: https://um.fi/documents/35732/0/yll%C3% ... 4706041856
That is why we were so surprised if one of the denying reasons related to "No proof that she is in position to lawfully acquire sufficient means of subsistence for the duration of the intended stay". If it is not possible for me to do so, they could state such thing in that document...

As someone from a non-EU country who is married to a Finnish citizen. Let me tell you that the most straight forward way to get married is for you to go to Indonesia and get married there. Then she can apply for a spouse RP. But keep in mind that marrying in Indonesia will not be easy and will require a lot of effort and red tape. But from personal experience i can tell you that yes while it's not the most efficient way, it is definitely the most effective way.

The fact that her job ends a few weeks before she was due to arrive is a pretty big red-flag. Also, perhaps you already know this, you need to have various documents from the foreign country ready if a foreign citizen wants to marry a Finn in Finland e.g. https://www.minilex.fi/a/avioliitto-ulk ... sen-kanssa. Unfortunately, these rules are quite strict and have gotten even stricter now. The time for researching things was before you applied for the visa but now, since they rejected it, it is more complicated. One way to proceed might be to get married in Indonesia and apply for a spousal residency permit. In my case-this was many, many years ago-I was non EU who got married to a Finn in Finland (I already had a Schengen residency permit from another country at the time), lived abroad for a year and came to Finland with a schengen visa for spouses. After arriving in Finland, I applied for and got a residence permit for family members

Getting married in Indonesia has another complication related to both parties having to be of the same religion or to convert, and right now that is standing in the way of that plan. They do not do civil marriages in Indonesia, only religious ones.

We do understand that one possibility is to apply for RP based on Intimate Relationship, but there is also an issue that for a permit for one year, they require her bank account to hold 12000 EUR accessible money. Based on a call to Migri, they said that on rare exception cases they can give exceptions to that based on my funds and income, but there would not be any guarantees. I don't know if it is possible to apply for that RP for shorter amount of time than one year while explaining in the application that our purpose is to marry in Finland and then get the spousal RP. Then it would lower the required money amount to possible rates.
Would anyone know if the RP can be for shorter time and for how short duration it could be?

Another alternative that we were now thinking is to get married in Denmark. At least by some research it seems to be something that many international couples do as the process is apparently quite easy and even the same form for "impediments to marriage" applies to all Nordic countries. There are many sites that I found that offer info and services on this, e.g. https://www.nordicadventureweddings.eu/ ... ed-to-know
Here the question becomes in getting a visa to Denmark. We are thinking that a tourist visa could be approved as it will be for a shorter stay and her account would have the necessary funds for the duration. Our current thinking is to also explain in the visa application that we are going to marry in Denmark. I would believe that the suspicion that she would not return to Indonesia should also be reduced as she is coming to a country where she cannot apply for the spousal RP.
Does anyone have experience or thoughts for this plan?

Thank you all so far for the helpful answers!

I know that marriages in Indonesia require both parties to be of the same religion. I am from such country too, and when my spouse came to my country so we can get married she literally just went to a mosque and converted in one hour and we got married. It's easy to do even if you don't believe in the faith, it's a piece of paper that you obtain regardless of whether you actually believing. I know that sounds wrong to say or do but it's one guaranteed way of you getting married as planned. Because applying for a visa to Denmark is just as risky as applying for a visa to Finland for people who are from developing countries like me.

[heretostay]

I know someone who was in similar position and had same kind of visa trouble. They ended up going to Mauritius to get married and that solution worked out well for them. Since every situation is unique, I would suggest that consulting an immigration attorney would be a good idea at this point to find out your best course of action. It might cost a couple hundred euros in fees but could end up saving you time and/or money in the end.

[Dudu-penyu]

I understand the frustration but unfortunately it’s really like that when someone is from a developing country because a lot of people don’t go back and they overstay. Which is understandable but still sucks.

Honestly it would be mainly the lack of strong ties to her country. I had money in my own account before but was still getting rejected when applying for visa in some countries.

I know an Indonesian who got married in Indonesia. The guy changed his religion but he didn’t really care since he’s actually atheist. It was just formality for him.

I only know 1 year for intimate relationship rp.

The Danish authorities are supposed to evaluate whether you will overstay inside Schengen so this includes the possibility of travelling to Finland and staying in Finland. What they will do in practise, I don't know.

I know that marriages in Indonesia require both parties to be of the same religion. I am from such country too, and when my spouse came to my country so we can get married she literally just went to a mosque and converted in one hour and we got married. It's easy to do even if you don't believe in the faith, it's a piece of paper that you obtain regardless of whether you actually believing. I know that sounds wrong to say or do but it's one guaranteed way of you getting married as planned. Because applying for a visa to Denmark is just as risky as applying for a visa to Finland for people who are from developing countries like me.

I understand and it does look like the suspicion of not going back to home country might be difficult to overcome.

We will re-evaluate the possibility of marrying in Indonesia. It does seem like the most sure plan and if the conversion can be done just as a formality with practically no other consequences in Finland, then it could also be possible.

This seems like grounds for appeal. At least they would be required to give better justifications. You would still have to overcome the doubt about return. Did have flights booked yet? This of course runs the risk that the tickets can't be used.

We did have flights booked, but so that we could cancel them still so no worries in losing money in there. Issue is that they don't have to give any justifications, they can just check a box in the form and if we want to appeal it also costs money and probably takes a lot of time too. And like you said, they probably would still have the doubt about return.

I know someone who was in similar position and had same kind of visa trouble. They ended up going to Mauritius to get married and that solution worked out well for them. Since every situation is unique, I would suggest that consulting an immigration attorney would be a good idea at this point to find out your best course of action. It might cost a couple hundred euros in fees but could end up saving you time and/or money in the end.

Thank you for the idea. We will consider if we reach out to one to get some consultation on our matter.

[betelgeuse]

This seems like grounds for appeal. At least they would be required to give better justifications. You would still have to overcome the doubt about return. Did have flights booked yet? This of course runs the risk that the tickets can't be used.

We did have flights booked, but so that we could cancel them still so no worries in losing money in there. Issue is that they don't have to give any justifications, they can just check a box in the form and if we want to appeal it also costs money and probably takes a lot of time too. And like you said, they probably would still have the doubt about return.

As I said on appeal they will have to give better justifications than just ticking a box. You will only pay the fees if you lose. Any residence permit based route will also take a long time due to long processing times.

[quillcentaur]

We will re-evaluate the possibility of marrying in Indonesia. It does seem like the most sure plan and if the conversion can be done just as a formality with practically no other consequences in Finland, then it could also be possible.

As far as I know, no consequences in Finland. Finland can't access data in what religion do people belong to in other countries. And anyway even if they can, it's not so bad if they kick you out of a church in finland (if you're still a church member) so you won't get automatically taxed by a church anymore .