Candian cost of living comparison

redoak · Post by **redoak** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:46 pm

Good day all,

I am a technical writer in Ottawa, Ontario. My partner (an EU passport holder) and I are considering a move to Helsinki.

Does anyone have any idea how the cost of living in Helsinki compares with eastern Ontario?

Thanks in advance for any guidance you may offer.

**Sponsor:**

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:57 pm

OK, you give us the cost of whatever you want in eastern Ontario and we can give you the equivalents from here.

jwesthues · Post by **jwesthues** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:28 pm

My unscientific hunch is higher.

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:44 pm

Unscientific +22% VAT to everything of course.

Scientifically theres always statistics:
http://www.tilastokeskus.fi/tup/suoluk/ ... tulot.html
cost indexes
http://www.tilastokeskus.fi/tup/suoluk/ ... innat.html

sayx · Post by **sayx** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:46 am

I’m from Waterloo & Ottawa area. I have found that if you take 40% of your free money away that’s about how you will be doing. On top of that your eating habits will change, I don’t eat out as much here then when I lived in Canada & the US, and I have started looking at the price tags in the grocery stores a lot more then I had before.

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:40 am

So now you know why the Finns ask: "*What* are you doing here?"

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 1:25 pm

Cory wrote:Sure we could have a big house, nice cars, nice clothes and the ability to eat out anywhere we wanted to every night of the week

Yes, well I could switch with that, instead of contemplating suicide every week after payday having 0 on the account after paying the bills.

sayx · Post by **sayx** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 2:39 pm

Hank, the more you make the more you spend.

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 3:02 pm

Of course I spend all my money - whats the use of saving it as there is nothing to save it for? I mean a new car or something? Imagine my ulcer popping of even the thought of driving something costing more than my yearly salary...

OK, I am not that bad off any more. Since my divorce I've been paying debts meant for 2 people by myself. I had the mortgage fixed, was happy for 2 weeks, but then my parents died and I had to pay my sisters out so as to save the property so I am back in debt up to my nose... If I've calculated everything right, if the parents flat gets sold with a decent price, I might break even and be able to pay off the balcony repair bill.

However we are straying away from the original topic - price comparisons.

OK - so there is less dispensable income in Finland vs. Canada, but is there some expenses that are "taken care of" within the taxation process/ taken care by some other entity in Finland that you have to take care of yourself in Canada? Also, how does the VAT and income taxation compare? That gives a bit of a fairer image than just saying "its fun to be poor".

happeningfish · Post by **happeningfish** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:40 pm

I lived in London (Ont) most of my life and Toronto most of my really fun life. Groceries are actually comparable. Some items will be inexplicably cheaper (like avocados!), while others will make you gasp (caesar salad). Cheese and bread are pretty much on par.

It's restaurants that are killer. In Toronto you can have three restaurant meals for the price of one in Helsinki (lunch is easily $11 without a beverage). Bars are also more expensive here.

Then again, salaries tend to be a bit higher (don't worry, your astronomical rent will compensate here), and a technical writer should do pretty well. Gas is very expensive, although I can't really say how much more as I ride my bike (which also cost a lot!).

Movie tickets are usually 8 to 10 euros, or 12 to 16 dollars Canadian. Public transportation is about 40 euros a month (68 or so Canuck $) for Helsinki. Gym memberships can be around $100/month, or more like $30 depending where you go. A night out where there's a band or a DJ is likely to be the Canadian equivalent of $9-20 for cover.

Clothing is your usual range: $10 t-shirts to Diesel jeans ($200).

The real upshot is that flights to a LOT of different countries and interesting culture/vacation spots are much cheaper from Helsinki than Toronto!

The short answer is that it's more expensive. However, you can find your way around that in a number of different ways once you get to know the city. Anything specific you want to know?

redoak · Post by **redoak** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:43 pm

Thanks very much to each and everyone of you for your replies. You've really helped a great deal. My situation is that my fiance and I are living off my income as he still hasn't receive his permanent residence status here in Canada so that he can work.

He is an EU citizen and would be able to work in Finland. I need to figure out if we'd be even worse off financially than we already are if we moved to Finland.

I've pasted our present budget below listing only the items that I felt would be applicable in Finland.

Would people mind chiming in with there thoughts on what the costs would be for the same items in Finland? I should mention that the job is in Helsinki but we'd love to live outside of the city in a rural area if there was public transportation available.

Mortgage/rent $198.97
Home Insurance $70.37
Car Payment $339.48
Car Insurance $84.65
Satellite/Cable TV $89.60
Home heating & electricity $170.00
Telephone service $50.00
Long distance telephone bill $50.00
Cel phone (pay as you go) $20.00
Gas for car $350.00
Groceries $350.00
Clothes $120.00
Personal Care $50.00
Sundries $50.00
Home Upkeep $100.00
Auto Upkeep $100.00
Vacation fund $120.00
Entertainment $200.00

Monthly $2,513.07

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:21 pm

There are "rural areas" even in the Greater Helsinki Area - say like North Espoo - and there is public transport (bus once an hour + taxis) and one Siwa maybe down the road, but then again the mortgage/rent rates are the same as in some more civilized areas.

That 198 a month will get you a garage spot

say 300-400 for a studio and up... the heating bill does not play any part unless you have your own house.

To have a tv in the first place costs something like 15 e/mo for the licence. Then if you *can* get cable or a dish thats depending. But you said you were going to commmute 3 hours daily to the city so theres not really so much time to watch tv...

Landline phones cost to hook up - people come by with just each having their own GSM (usually work benefit).

Gas costs something like euro 1.116 -1.120 per liter. How much is a tank fill and how long does it last?

For 120 you could take two people with train to Tampere, but hardly stay at a hotel.

... errr... and all that was in funny money too. 1 Canadian is 0.63 cents.

redoak · Post by **redoak** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:14 pm

Thanks for the detailed replies on my sample Canadian budget. Sorry for the ridiculous 198.97 figure for housing. I pay my mortgage weekly and failed to increase the number to show the monthly payment of $800 for our 1400 square foot bungalow (on 1 acre) 60 km south of Ottawa.

I'm not sure how you understood that my current commute is three hours. It's actually about 50 minutes each way.

We own our home and we have car payments, not lease payments. We heat our house and hot water with propane. Electricity is for everything else (lights, appliances, central air conditioning, etc...).

The sample budget I posted was just the essentials. The figure for Entertainment includes such things as movies, concert tickets, museums, green fees. Sundries are such things as newspapers, magazines, drycleaning, greeting cards, all of the small things.

I need to be able to evaluate how I'll manage to pay the bills on whatever salary I may be offered by the Helsinki company I'm interviewing with.

Does anyone know what senior technical writers get paid in Helsinki in the software sector?

alloydog · Post by **alloydog** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:18 pm

redoak wrote:Does anyone know what senior technical writers get paid in Helsinki in the software sector?

Between EUR 2 000 and EUR 3 000 a month depending on experience.

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 6:07 pm

redoak wrote: monthly payment of $800

OK, so that would be more like in the ballpark as well here.

our 1400 square foot bungalow (on 1 acre) 60 km south of Ottawa.

Measures in metric, do measures in metric... how much is one acre? An arpent and a half ?? So you have 130 square house on half a hectare? Thats not a house - that's a mansion... Ok, a house that size you can get for say 150-250 000 in the 60km radius probably. New projects run at 250-300 000. Depending on the deal you either need 20% cash down and then get a mortgage for say 20 years or if it is a new project the mortgage is to the builders and you pay it in rent...

I'm not sure how you understood that my current commute is three hours.

Well- you said you wanted to find something in the rural areas. If you take the bus it takes about three hours - one way - to make it through the traffic. Atleast with my car

We own our home and we have car payments, not lease payments. We heat our house and hot water with propane. Electricity is for everything else (lights, appliances, central air conditioning, etc...).

Here the heating is with oil or electricity or wood and combinations of the 3. Varies, oil and electricity are the main ones. Air conditioning means you can open the windows here
Car payments - generally here you have some sort of leasing to pay for the car, the equity value is not so good the banks give a loan towards new cars and laugh you out with old ones.

The sample budget I posted was just the essentials.

You see how much dry cleaning or going to the movies costs here the part on "essential" changes to "luxury".

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