Too many arrows pointing in one direction.

Wonderlandless · Post by **Wonderlandless** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 12:11 am

I'm new here and have questions about making a successful move to Finland (obviously). I had been reading everything possible about the steps to take until I stumbled onto here, and everything I have read has been extremely helpful (if not very intimidating). I am 18 years old and in my final year of High School. Last year I had the great luck of becoming very close friends with a Finnish girl who came to my school as an exchange student. She invited me to stay with her this past summer and I took her up on her offer. I stayed in Porvoo mostly (though we were in Helsinki for a week)

And I fell completely in love with Finland.

I want to move to Helsinki, but I'm not sure as to how I need to do that. I speak a little Finnish, but I practice constantly (from as much as I can learn from random websites) and I would love to attend school in Finland since I read it gives you a better chance of getting a job. What I'm worried about is money. I've thought about going to school here and working so I can save up enough money to get an apartment and a stable life in Helsinki and have enough money to last me until I can get a job (theoretically lasting for a maximum of a month). But I talked to my French teacher (I also speak French. Three years worth, anyway) and she said the best idea would be for me to go to Finland as a student and apply for a work permit while there and then apply for a full residency once I graduate. I think that could work.

Another thing I'm worried about is: if I do study in Finland, only some courses are offered in English. I looked at those in question at University of Helsinki and they really don't interest me (the Social Psychology does slightly) but I really want to be a vet.

The girl who I stayed with, Emilia, her father works with the Finnish Ice Breakers, so I thought maybe I could try that if all else fails in getting a job.

I don't know. It seems like it's so difficult to get into Finland, and there are so many options. I don't know what to do! My original plan was to work and go to school here for two-four years and then move, but now I'm being told it would be better for me to go as a student.

So, if you could please help or offer any suggestions, I am all ears.

Thanks!

**Sponsor:**

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 12:18 am

Theres English programs in the Polytechnics. http://www.helia.fi (check the porvoo section) http://www.evtech fi http://www.haaga.fi http://www.stadia.fi -getting into a program is easier than to the universities and within 3-4 years you get a Bachelors degree. if nothing else you can go back home and you've done something else than the guys that stayed home shooting possums...

It might be cheaper than going to College there, as there is no tuition fees, though you need some 5000-6000 euros on the bank account to get the residence permit. Students are allowed to work part-time and after residing/working here its far easier to get a regular work permit.

BTW the ice breakers take only professional staff, been in the Navy?

Wonderlandless · Post by **Wonderlandless** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 12:22 am

Nah. I'm not much of a military girl. It was just a thought.

I dunno. It seems like it's so difficult living in Finland. If I can wing it, I might spend the second semester of High School as an exchange student. But that's a BIG maybe and I'd be lucky to do it on such short notice.

I read about the 5000-6000 Euro bank account. That's why I want to wait a bit and work first so I can build up enough money to go there on.

bretti_kivi · Post by **bretti_kivi** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 12:36 am

my dear, it's difficult getting permission to live anywhere except where you were born and or have nationality. the trick is to want it enough and understand that it isn't simple, then you are prepared for a couple of problems, and you don't get disappointed after the first "paperwork issue".

okay, i just read parts of your blog.

go listen to some nightwish. preferably once or wishmaster. and then say, after listening, and understanding that this music was created here and describes and fits to the surroundings, that you want to be here and understand that this will not be easy.

i think you have the balls to do it. but you will need staying power.

Bret

PS IIRC hyvää and hyvä have no "meaning" difference: they refer to grammatically different versions of the same word. "minä en puhu vielä hyvä suomea" - "i don't speak good finnish yet"

Wonderlandless · Post by **Wonderlandless** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 1:08 am

I know more Finnish than I posted in my blog. Those are just the newer terms (except I knew 'Hei/Moi' and 'Kiitos' when I was in Finland. Oh, and Suomi, Ei, Kylla, Yksi, Koulu, Isä and Rakastan. That was all I learned there).

I do understand this isn't going to be simple, and I'm going to have to be both patient and persistent. I want to live in Finland, it's really the only thing I can be 100% sure of when I say it. It's the only place that truly holds my interest. Even though I was there for a short while...it felt like home. The only thing I'm worried about is getting over there properly and settling in. I have two cats, so I'm also trying to take their feelings into consideration. I don't mind starting my life completely over, that's not what bothers me. ...I just wish this knot of anxiety would go away.

I don't know why but when I read anything involving the steps to come to Finland, I get this knot of anxiety in my stomach. I guess it's because it's all pies and sunshine to say 'Well, I'm moving to Finland' but then when I read the documents I realize that I'm not just saying those as empty, lofty words, but putting my plan in motion. I'm a perfectionist. I want everything to go right. But I know it's not going to go so smoothly. Ultimately, I just want to get there and get my life started.

bretti_kivi · Post by **bretti_kivi** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 1:33 am

Anxiety when confronted with change is completely normal. You're talking about moving halfway across the world - if you weren't worried i'd be really surprised.

and getting everything to go right is an art form...

i have to go to bed now - it's 01:30 and i will get woken at 8 by my daughter.

Bret

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 1:57 am

bretti_kivi wrote: PS IIRC hyvää and hyvä have no "meaning" difference: they refer to grammatically different versions of the same word. "minä en puhu vielä hyvä suomea" - "i don't speak good finnish yet"

Obligatory Grammar Nazi: minä en puhu hyvää suomea.

mookoo · Post by **mookoo** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 3:42 am

Hank W. wrote:
bretti_kivi wrote: PS IIRC hyvää and hyvä have no "meaning" difference: they refer to grammatically different versions of the same word. "minä en puhu vielä hyvä suomea" - "i don't speak good finnish yet"
Obligatory Grammar Nazi: minä en puhu hyvää suomea.

Obligatory Grammar Nazi #2: "I don't speak Finnish WELL yet"

Hank W. wrote:if nothing else you can go back home and you've done something else than the guys that stayed home shooting possums...

I used to have a pet possum!

Wonderlandless:
I certainly know what you mean about being intimidated by alllllllll the paperwork. And they never seem to be quite clear about anything. I have even tried calling the Consulate General in New York to ask questions about material on the websites and they kept telling me to look on their website (hello!?!?!?! Not helping)! I don't know about moving there being a student ... but it does make it easier if you find someone to marry

You have probably checked this website already, but just in case http://www.mol.fi/migration/pateng.html. In particular this pdf brochure is helpful http://www.mol.fi/migration/engopas.pdf. Good luck on your quest.

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 3:44 am

get intimidated by paperwork go to http://www.usembassy.fi and look what I have to fill in to come to the USA and be quiet

I don't even know what tribe I belong to - it is a serious trauma!

bretti_kivi · Post by **bretti_kivi** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 12:19 pm

Vielen Dank, Herr Oberfeldwebel, Kommandant der Grammatikalischen Korrekturarmee

okay, i don't speak finnish properly yet either. but i'm working on it... bloody necessary here "in der Provinz" as well, if i want a job..

my other excuse is it was late.

but now I know. and that's good.

@hank: Tribe?

Bret

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 7:24 pm

http://travel.state.gov/visa/DS-0157.pdf
4. Clan or Tribe Name

bretti_kivi · Post by **bretti_kivi** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 7:57 pm

isn't the correct answer "Mc Loud, of the clan Mc Loud" ?

Wonderlandless · Post by **Wonderlandless** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 9:57 pm

@Hank: 'Clan or Tribe?' That's quite interesting.

@Mookoo: Blah, It seems a lot of countries are very vague and non-helpful when it comes to these sort of things. Isn't the US supposed to be the worst about it? When I was in Finland, I learned quite quickly the Finnish are rather..standoffish when it comes to strangers. You just sort of ignore everyone around you. Or so Emilia taught me. That's another thing I am worried about: Despite the small group of friends, how do you make other friends? I know you're supposed to befriend the friends of your friends and so on but...what about strangers? What about if you go out somewhere (like say to a bar or other social setting). Do you still keep to yourself and those you know?

mookoo · Post by **mookoo** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 10:48 pm

Wonderlandless wrote:@Mookoo: Blah, It seems a lot of countries are very vague and non-helpful when it comes to these sort of things. Isn't the US supposed to be the worst about it? When I was in Finland, I learned quite quickly the Finnish are rather..standoffish when it comes to strangers. You just sort of ignore everyone around you. Or so Emilia taught me. That's another thing I am worried about: Despite the small group of friends, how do you make other friends? I know you're supposed to befriend the friends of your friends and so on but...what about strangers? What about if you go out somewhere (like say to a bar or other social setting). Do you still keep to yourself and those you know?

@wonderlandless: I am not sure whether you are asking the difference between US and Finland by way of immigration or by way of general friendliness and acceptance of foreigners. But I will say what I have heard and what I know.

As far as socializing: I have never been to a Finnish bar or social club or anything yet; but even if I went I don't speak Finnish. I have found that the Finnish are rather shy about speaking to a foreigner (of course, depending on where you are). I am mostly around the Seinäjoki area when I visit Finland. People around there seem to be very intimidated by foreigners. I end up having conversations that are like "excuse me, how much is this?" ... "blah blah blah blah blah" ... "I am sorry, I don't speak Finnish" ... "blah blah blah blah blah". However, I got much better response in Helsinki where even most menus are already double printed in English. And I could get around by myself mostly, even without by boyfriend/traslator. Just like anywhere, sometimes if you try to talk to people they close down and don't want to talk, and some other people will talk to ya for an hour! So you may find friends at random that way, or I am sure you would make friends at school since you would at least have a bit in common already with them. And there are always other people around Helsinki who are on this bb who you can talk to and perhaps become friends with. In the US I guess I can see where some foreigners would be intimidated (again depending on where you are). You being from Kentucky and I from Kansas can understand the stong "speak english or die" philosophy and probably know of a few people who think that way. However, a foreigner would find themselves much more well recepted in someplace that is used to it like New York. But I am always very friendly to the foreigners. No matter where I am. I was on cruise from Helsinki to Stockholm where something like half the boat was Japanese tourists. For some reason, they always like to hang around me. I had many "sign language" conversations with the ones who didn't speak English (and I don't speak Japanese as you probably have guessed). It was fun though.

As far as immigration is concerned: I have never tried to immigrate to the US ... being born here and all.

But I guess since President Bush has come to office it has become harder for people of Europe to move over. (I got this information from some European hockey player friends of mine who were trying to move back to the US to play hockey and were having a tougher time than they did before 2000). But I certainly know it is frustrating trying to move to Finland. Especially calling the darn consulate. Each time I talk to someone new, I get a completely different recomendation of what I should be doing. It makes me wish I knew some good curse words in Finnish. Oh yeah, and forget about calling the UVI in Finland. I tried to call them once (between 2am and 3am US time is the only time when they will take "immigration" questions) to ask some questions about their applications for residency and they kept sending me around to different people. None of them could understand me (I didn't know my english was so bad

). Eventually they told me to call the embassy ... whome I had already called ... who told me to call the consulate ... who told me to contact the UVI.

Perkele!

bretti_kivi · Post by **bretti_kivi** » Sun Sep 26, 2004 12:02 am

hold on, your english isn't necessarily too bad, but you probably have a significantly broader accent than they understand.
3 points:
- slow down (LOTS and stick to the speed!)
- concentrate on your pronunciation and diction
and simplify your language

this makes dealing with anyone easier. accents, especially in the states, are in my experience difficult to deal with for an englishman, never mind a finn. I'm lucky, i lost my accent a loooong time ago. some people never do.

the Finns really are quite shy, but when you get to know them, they're cool. it's easy to take it step by step, you know, from seeing them, to nodding at them to greeting them, to ... it's a slow process, but then it is everywhere.
as a student you have lots of people to hang out with anyway: classmates....and the bar thing is kinda wierd - you can meet all sorts...some harmless, others less so. a bit of stand-offishness is useful in many situations.

Bret

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