considering moving to finland

Billpete002 · Post by **Billpete002** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:10 am

HEI!

ok this is gonna be a few years down the road and ive done some looking at the finnish economy and it looks like things are getting better slowly.

thing is my fiancee is (hopefully) coming here for college in MA (i have a question about this as well)

after we graduate theres a 75% chance we will live in the states and a good 25% in Finland (in my mind at least) the reasons that worry me is high unemployment (10%) and me not knowing the language.

I read the post about getting jobs in Finland and the chances of me getting a supportive job there is slim to none (im still in college) I plan to get a PHD in economics, and i cant find any sites or listings for jobs in Finland for it (merk!)

so im wondering about is there any chance on a english speaking wannabe finnish citizen getting a economist job in Finland (I'm thinking a BIG no on that one) also whats the average pay for a PHD economist in Finland? Here is 59,000$ average starting which is awsome pay! and with paying 34% or something in taxes i wanna know if i can put food on the table (id be possibly living in Kuopio or Helsinki)

Now that I've asked my main question wondering if anyone can answer this question since I can't get a clear answer from US or Finland on visa's

My fiancee is coming over next year for college so she gets the student visa then after two years in school (that summer between sophmore and junior year) we wanna get married in Finland (tradition) and then have her become a US citizen. (is that possible or does the wedding need to be in USA?) Which would mean getting the marriage visa.

So now I'm assuming she looses the possible grant from Finland (your government pays i think it was 6,500$ or something) Which she will then be able to apply for scholarships since she is then a US citizen?

so thanks for reading all this, I'm just worried that if we do move to Finland im screwed on the job and the language (which im trying to learn)
and my fiancee will end up putting food on the table while im stuck at home! (while i would like to be lazy for the rest of my life I couldn't do that to her and I wanna be responsible)

**Sponsor:**

bretti_kivi · Post by **bretti_kivi** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 9:58 am

blunt start: having a PhD in Kuopio is pointless. there are no jobs. personal experience. unless you're a biochemist / gene researcher.

in helsinki? no idea. your possible employers are limited (try the main banks) but you'd be much better off in Frankfurt, literally. 59k starting is a dream AFAIC - the kids out of college are demanding 4k per month and getting less. maybe you'll be lucky, but...

Bret

PeterF · Post by **PeterF** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:19 am

Billpete002 wrote:)
1: I plan to get a PHD in economics, and i cant find any sites or listings for jobs in Finland for it.

2:.. also whats the average pay for a PHD economist in Finland? Here is 59,000$ average starting which is awsome pay! and with paying 34% or something in taxes i wanna know if i can put food on the table

3:My fiancee is coming over next year..we wanna get married in Finland (tradition) and then have her become a US citizen. (is that possible or does the wedding need to be in USA?) Which would mean getting the marriage visa.

4: So now I'm assuming she looses the possible grant from Finland (your government pays i think it was 6,500$ or something) Which she will then be able to apply for scholarships since she is then a US citizen?

1. Not surprised...Finland is not one of Europe's International Finance centers...Helsinki is not London/Frankfurt..I doubt there are openings for Non Finnish speaker with a PHd even in the main banks.
I think that Nokia has an office in NY which handles its international finances..seem to remember they employed some American lady, ex boss of HP, to the job and she said.. "based in Finland did not make sense she needed to be in a major financial center/city."
2. Fresh out of Univ..zero experience....4K a month...but only if you are fluent Finnish/Swedish/English...otherwise...you might get a job as a book keeper/accountant for a UK/US local office at 2.5K month.

Questions 3/4 sorry no idea.

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 12:40 pm

Billpete002 wrote: also whats the average pay for a PHD economist in Finland?

Which one of the two?

Billpete002 · Post by **Billpete002** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 7:16 am

thanks all for replying to my post quickly ;p

yeah i thought as much, I told my fiancee ill consider going there for retirement ^_^

no offense to finland but if i cant provide for my family no point in going until i have a wad of money saved up to live my life there ;p

anywho thanks again ^-^

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:57 am

Billpete002 wrote: no offense to finland but if i cant provide for my family no point in going until i have a wad of money saved up to live my life there

Well, the thing is you can't "provide for your family" in the lifestyle and luxury you may be used to (with big cars, huge mansion etc. lavish lifestyle) too easily. If you are into frugal living then the other qualities may come (safety, infrastructure, nature) as weighing on the scale. People usually will recalculate their values when they have kids. However I'd suggest getting the 60K a year, saving it up for a few years and then contemplating again. I mean the few jobs there would be for PHD's in economics a few ones might be tenures at the universities so an educational cert on the side doesn't hurt. I agree "moving to Finland with money" is easier. If you are uneducated then moving to Finland is tempting too, as the incentive of free education is there, only you have then to really study the language and pass the tests - however first educating yourself with tuition fees exceeding a Finn's average yearly income and then coming here expecting a president's salary to be able to pay them off... just ain't calculating right.

No Finn would be offended - we're realists. Getting a job "straight out of school" is hard for all graduates, and the economy isn't exactly "blooming".

Caroline · Post by **Caroline** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:28 pm

Billpete002 wrote:HEI!
ive done some looking at the finnish economy and it looks like things are getting better slowly.

It is? Which papers are you reading?

Hank sums up the trade-offs quite well. If your needs and wants are the kinds that are conducive to living here, then you will be happy- i.e. giving up your car or settling for one with fewer frills, smaller living quarters, simpler diet, shopping at second-hand stores etc etc. You don't need much money to get life's essentials here (apartment, food, bus ticket- when the public transportation system is in service), and subsequently you won't get much money.

But if you are hoping to maintain the same standard of living here and/or have opportunities for career growth and you aren't being supported by a rich uncle, then forget it; you are better off in MA.

By the way, where in MA are you? I am also from there.

MPballet · Post by **MPballet** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 7:15 pm

In response to your concern about learning the language, if you don't learn the language well enough is it like a handicap? I'm thinking it would be the equivilent to missing a leg or an arm...or something. Would you be looked down upon in the finnish career world if you aren't a good speaker?

bretti_kivi · Post by **bretti_kivi** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:26 pm

simple answer: yes.

you need it sooner or later, and that at a level over and above being able to understand menus and get yourself home in one piece. or do you want to be "the reason" everyone switches to English in a meeting?

personally, i've been learning for six months having spoken the language for 5 years at home and thus having had most of the vocab. I'm still not at the point where i'm really happy trying to explain my ideas in detail or presenting a product without having exhaustively learnt the precise vocab i need beforehand. that will also take me another 6 months of work - preferably a language course and working in the language.

Bret

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 11:31 am

MPballet wrote:In response to your concern about learning the language, if you don't learn the language well enough is it like a handicap?

Imagine speaking Finnish only and seeking work in Massachusetts....

sayx · Post by **sayx** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 12:31 pm

It makes things very hard, but its duable.

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 12:37 pm

How about special circumstances like "battling with the insurance company"?

teme · Post by **teme** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:06 pm

Regarding salary, according to surveys average monthly wage for an economist (master degree) is little under 4500 a month and for a fresh graduate propably something under 3000 (Euros.) Propably bit higher in Helsinki, as those are national averages. But, if you have a PhD in Economics and work in the private sector you negotiate your own pay, really depends on what you do and for whome you work. It's a business transaction not an union deal. Still, you'll propably earn less than in USA at least after taxes. Heck, you're the economist, run the numbers yourself

I disagree with Caroline, unemployment is bit high but the economy is doing reasonably well.
If I were you I'd consider an exchange year here while you are still studying.

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 2:37 pm

teme wrote: If I were you I'd consider an exchange year here while you are still studying.

Indeed, that is the best way to get your "feelers out".

shah269 · Post by **shah269** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:55 pm

look mate I hate to throw more sand in your gears.
but from what I have noticed you are better off skipping higher education and being a buss driver in Finland! you would get paid more!
I'm serious!

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