frieda
Cult information in Finland :
http://www.uskontojenuhrientuki.fi/english.html
Is Laestadianism a cult? That is of course a matter of definition.
The Laestadians that I have met have all been nice people. Most of them were taught to believe ( by their parents ) what they believe. I do not regard Laestadianism as a dangerous sect. Most ( if not all ) of them are law-abiding citizens.
Curious about Laestadius
Check out my blog for a discussion on the cult issue:
http://extoots.blogspot.com/2004/10/you ... amata.html
The way some people practice Laestadianism is cultish. I was disowned from my family when I left the sect and their shunning of me was encouraged by leaders. Laestadius purposely emphasized the "law" and the fear of damnation to promote temperance in Lapland. It is a religion based on fear and on promoting fear.
I would not recommend it as a spiritual path.
http://extoots.blogspot.com/2004/10/you ... amata.html
The way some people practice Laestadianism is cultish. I was disowned from my family when I left the sect and their shunning of me was encouraged by leaders. Laestadius purposely emphasized the "law" and the fear of damnation to promote temperance in Lapland. It is a religion based on fear and on promoting fear.
I would not recommend it as a spiritual path.
>> I was disowned from my family when I left the sect... <<
Was that based on the Bible? Do you know where the Bible says that parents should disown their apostate children? It would be interesting to read it.
You mentioned that "Alien" was the first movie you saw. Have you seen "Witness" ( Harrison Ford among the Amish people )?:
http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0090329/?fr= ... ft=10;fm=1
Do not miss "Check for other user comments" and scroll down for "Message Boards"!
I liked the way the Amish were portrayed in it. They were absolutely charming.
"Witness" does not have too much violence. It is a thought provoking and highly entertaining movie and some scenes will put a lump in your throat, some a smile on your face.
Was that based on the Bible? Do you know where the Bible says that parents should disown their apostate children? It would be interesting to read it.
You mentioned that "Alien" was the first movie you saw. Have you seen "Witness" ( Harrison Ford among the Amish people )?:
http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0090329/?fr= ... ft=10;fm=1
Do not miss "Check for other user comments" and scroll down for "Message Boards"!
I liked the way the Amish were portrayed in it. They were absolutely charming.
"Witness" does not have too much violence. It is a thought provoking and highly entertaining movie and some scenes will put a lump in your throat, some a smile on your face.
frieda
There is a very good forum for "believers,unbelievers and exbelievers" at :
http://forums.delphiforums.com/FreeThinkers3/start
You can enter the forum as a guest. Registration is necessary if you want to post messages.
There is a very good forum for "believers,unbelievers and exbelievers" at :
http://forums.delphiforums.com/FreeThinkers3/start
You can enter the forum as a guest. Registration is necessary if you want to post messages.
Here is an excellent English language site on Laestadianism by a Finnish historian :
http://www.makkeri.bravepages.com/index3.htm
There are very good links on the site! Here is one of them :
http://users.erols.com/ewheaton/
http://www.makkeri.bravepages.com/index3.htm
There are very good links on the site! Here is one of them :
http://users.erols.com/ewheaton/
Biblical basis for shunning
Actually there seems to be quite a bit of biblical basis for shunning (see a review at http://www.webedelic.com/church/keepawayt.htm).
Thing is, there's Paul and then there's Jesus.
Thanks for the links .. . I'm learning a lot.
Thing is, there's Paul and then there's Jesus.
Thanks for the links .. . I'm learning a lot.
frieda
Did you ever hear the story of NASA scientists who discovered a missing day in time?I do not think that the story was perpetuated in your church.
Unfortunately the story is false. You can read about it here :
http://www.snopes.com/religion/lostday.htm
I thought that you would find this interesting.
Did you ever hear the story of NASA scientists who discovered a missing day in time?I do not think that the story was perpetuated in your church.
Unfortunately the story is false. You can read about it here :
http://www.snopes.com/religion/lostday.htm
I thought that you would find this interesting.
Here is a site by the Laestadians Lutheran Church in America:
http://www.laestadianlutheran.org/
Recorded sermons on-line :
http://www.laestadianlutheran.org/04ss_schedule.html
Photos :
http://www.laestadianlutheran.org/04ss_photos.html
http://www.laestadianlutheran.org/
Recorded sermons on-line :
http://www.laestadianlutheran.org/04ss_schedule.html
Photos :
http://www.laestadianlutheran.org/04ss_photos.html
Hey,
This discussion seems very superficial, the replies seem to be mostly of the stereotypes surrounding the religion.. I'd like to offer my two cents.
I am a laestadian would like to clarify a few points.
Laestadians, we believe that the only way to Heaven is through belief in God, and through the forgiveness of sins. Although we should try to live a clean life, we realise that our own actions as sinful people won't be good enough for God, as we can never be perfect. The only perfect person was Jesus, and through his resurrection we too will be saved by staying in faith.
We try not to be too secular, which can often be hard. TV and music are discouraged as they separate the person from God. A believer doesn't want to be one with the world, since one cannot have two masters, God and the world. One of them must be chosen. If one decides to follow God, earthly pleasures which draw a person into the world should be avoided.
And no, the washing machine story is not true...
We do not disfellowship people who decide to leave their faith. We can remain close friends with them, and I actually have never heard of anyone being shunned in my religion.
Someone said something about Laestadians being wealthy etc. We do our work as if we were doing it for God. We work hard and maintain our morals. Money is needed to support our families, but it is not something important to a believer. Build your treasure with the Lord, not on Earth.
What else..
The numerous children. We believe that God is the giver and taker of life. We cannot decide when to have children and what kind of children to have. A child is always a gift from God.
If there are any other questions, please ask.
Love,
meila
This discussion seems very superficial, the replies seem to be mostly of the stereotypes surrounding the religion.. I'd like to offer my two cents.
I am a laestadian would like to clarify a few points.
Laestadians, we believe that the only way to Heaven is through belief in God, and through the forgiveness of sins. Although we should try to live a clean life, we realise that our own actions as sinful people won't be good enough for God, as we can never be perfect. The only perfect person was Jesus, and through his resurrection we too will be saved by staying in faith.
We try not to be too secular, which can often be hard. TV and music are discouraged as they separate the person from God. A believer doesn't want to be one with the world, since one cannot have two masters, God and the world. One of them must be chosen. If one decides to follow God, earthly pleasures which draw a person into the world should be avoided.
And no, the washing machine story is not true...
We do not disfellowship people who decide to leave their faith. We can remain close friends with them, and I actually have never heard of anyone being shunned in my religion.
Someone said something about Laestadians being wealthy etc. We do our work as if we were doing it for God. We work hard and maintain our morals. Money is needed to support our families, but it is not something important to a believer. Build your treasure with the Lord, not on Earth.
What else..
The numerous children. We believe that God is the giver and taker of life. We cannot decide when to have children and what kind of children to have. A child is always a gift from God.
If there are any other questions, please ask.
Love,
meila
Wow so much for a superficial answer...meila123 wrote:Hey,
I am a laestadian would like to clarify a few points.
Laestadians, we believe that the only way to Heaven is through belief in God, and through the forgiveness of sins. Although we should try to live a clean life, we realise that our own actions as sinful people won't be good enough for God, as we can never be perfect. The only perfect person was Jesus, and through his resurrection we too will be saved by staying in faith.
In my case, I belong to a religion known as the unknown religion where I believe myself to be the perfect human being and so can be considered as God! If you question that, you can talk to my god and find out..
[/quote]
and so much for using the internet which seperates the person even more than TV and music from God.. and I wonder what will happen when TV and music are delivered through the internet?We try not to be too secular, which can often be hard. TV and music are discouraged as they separate the person from God. A believer doesn't want to be one with the world, since one cannot have two masters, God and the world. One of them must be chosen. If one decides to follow God, earthly pleasures which draw a person into the world should be avoided.
And no, the washing machine story is not true...
I believe that we can have as many masters as we can handle..or allow them to be our masters..
Hmm, If it were not for the sumereans who invented money, we wouldnt need it..Yeah...We would still be bartering using our computers..and ebay would be the richest company in the world..We do not disfellowship people who decide to leave their faith. We can remain close friends with them, and I actually have never heard of anyone being shunned in my religion.
Someone said something about Laestadians being wealthy etc. We do our work as if we were doing it for God. We work hard and maintain our morals. Money is needed to support our families, but it is not something important to a believer. Build your treasure with the Lord, not on Earth.
What else..
The numerous children. We believe that God is the giver and taker of life. We cannot decide when to have children and what kind of children to have. A child is always a gift from God.
A child is always a gift from god? *Wow* when I was young, I used to wonder where children came from...and I was told a story of Ramayana, which said that Dasaratha the king had no children and decided to make a fire prayer to please some gods who finally came and gave him the nectar (portrayed as milk+honey)and he decided to give his 3 wives each a portion and the 1st one another portion. So they ended with 4 kids..
Gee I wonder what happened? Just by drinking some nectar, can we get children...
and If you decide not to make children how do they come?
In this day and age, are you for real?If there are any other questions, please ask.
Love,
meila
>> I am a laestadian would like to clarify a few points.
Laestadians, we believe that the only way to Heaven is through belief in God, and through the forgiveness of sins. Although we should try to live a clean life, we realise that our own actions as sinful people won't be good enough for God, as we can never be perfect. The only perfect person was Jesus, and through his resurrection we too will be saved by staying in faith. <<
Do you believe that people can get saved outside your church or do you believe that members of all other churches will go to hell ? I have relatives in the Laestadian movement and they believe that they are the only true church of God on earth and salvation can only be found in the Laestadian movement.
I do not look down on Laestadians. They believe what their preachers and priests tell them to believe. It is obvious ( at least to me ) that God is unable to speak to his followers no matter how devout those followers happen to be. If your preachers teach you something that can not be true ( = the only true church on earth ) your God is unable to speak to them and correct them. He must be a very small God indeed ! I do not look down on Laestadians, I look down on God.
Laestadians, we believe that the only way to Heaven is through belief in God, and through the forgiveness of sins. Although we should try to live a clean life, we realise that our own actions as sinful people won't be good enough for God, as we can never be perfect. The only perfect person was Jesus, and through his resurrection we too will be saved by staying in faith. <<
Do you believe that people can get saved outside your church or do you believe that members of all other churches will go to hell ? I have relatives in the Laestadian movement and they believe that they are the only true church of God on earth and salvation can only be found in the Laestadian movement.
I do not look down on Laestadians. They believe what their preachers and priests tell them to believe. It is obvious ( at least to me ) that God is unable to speak to his followers no matter how devout those followers happen to be. If your preachers teach you something that can not be true ( = the only true church on earth ) your God is unable to speak to them and correct them. He must be a very small God indeed ! I do not look down on Laestadians, I look down on God.
Hi kalmisto,Do you believe that people can get saved outside your church or do you believe that members of all other churches will go to hell ? I have relatives in the Laestadian movement and they believe that they are the only true church of God on earth and salvation can only be found in the Laestadian movement.
Glad you asked, and nicely too. (not very used to people asking anything they don't believe in, in a nice manner in finland)
Bible the sole base of Laestadian faith, and to answer you, I probably should quote the Bible.
It says: "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide, and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter by it. For the gate is small, and the way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it. -(Matthew 7:13-14)
- It seems self-explanatory, that there are only few who find the way to Heaven, and the only reason I am a Laestadian is because I believe this is the only way.
I believe that salvation happens only through faith and the forgiveness of sins:
"the just shall live by faith"(Romans 1:17-18)
Luke 5:20:"When Jesus saw their faith, he said, "Friend, your sins are forgiven." "
John 3:16: "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, so that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."
Acts 26:18: "...that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in me..."
One should belong to God's kingdom, and unfortunately I do believe that God says that only those in that kingdom receive ever-lasting life.
I know this sounds cruel, but since we all came from God, he would want everyone to really believe in him.
It's called the Holy Spirit. We believe in the triunal God and that God is in the midst of us through the Holy Ghost (Pyhä Henki in Finnish).It is obvious ( at least to me ) that God is unable to speak to his followers no matter how devout those followers happen to be. If your preachers teach you something that can not be true ( = the only true church on earth ) your God is unable to speak to them and correct them.
Conscience (omatunto) is what keeps us on the right track, following God's word.
Seriously, we don't believe because we are told to believe by a priest or a speaker. God has waked our wish for salvation, and priests are merely here to guide and help us...
Staying in faith can be very hard at times, and I personally have had some very hard times. Luckily the trials have afterwards strenghtened my faith.
I appreciate your thoughts though Kalmisto. These are just my beliefs and you hopefully will respect that. But if you have any comments, I don't mind hearing them. .
Love, meila
Seriously??? You cannot seriously believe it like that. I mean I've heard that the universe was created by the flying spaghetti monster but I don't believe it.I've heard that some lestadian women end up dying due to complications in giving birth. Then the husband just gets remarried and has dozens of kids with the next wife. Or at least as long as she lives. That seems horrible to me
Ok, technically that could happen. But what you're saying implicitly in that grotesque little story, is that Laestadian men just want to get their wives pregnant, and to have many children whether that might kill them or not. Yes, that sounds horrible to me too, but what is worse is how you convey that little stereotype. ANYTHING can be made to look horrible, wrong or weird simply by choosing the words and how to present it.
If a spouse dies, the husband or wife can get remarried. And if they are blessed with children then so be it. If it is known that a woman would have a serious risk in pregnancy, then she doesn't need to get pregnant whether she's Laestadian or not.
"Seriously??? You cannot seriously believe it like that. I mean I've heard that the universe was created by the flying spaghetti monster but I don't believe it."meila123 wrote:I've heard that some lestadian women end up dying due to complications in giving birth. Then the husband just gets remarried and has dozens of kids with the next wife. Or at least as long as she lives. That seems horrible to me
They do have a lot of kids. Seems plausible to me.
"If it is known that a woman would have a serious risk in pregnancy, then she doesn't need to get pregnant whether she's Laestadian or not."
But isn't it a Lestadian woman's sole responsibility to give birth to as many children as possible? And when every form of contraception is wretched and evil even if you are married, you know what the result is.
My mom has a former Leastadian friend (a renegade). She's unmarried because she chose not to become a "child-machine".