2 cars 1 car or no car?

[Ed]

I just got my employment certificate from Nokia, so I guess it is official that I am moving to Tampere. With a wife and 2 teenage kids, we really don't want to live in a small apartment. I have been looking a lot at the http://www.oikotie.fi site at houses, and it looks like we will end up kind of out in the country to get something that will be comfortable for us. The question then is do we bring our cars? The wife and I both got new cars in 2004, and really don't want to go back to driving junkers. I saw this guys web site http://www.valimaki.com/jeep_reg.html and it scares the daylights out of me, as I have a 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4WD. I really don't want to pay another 15K to 20K to get it over there, but on the other hand I could make a tidy profit when I can sell it in two years. It is also not clear if we can bring two cars and get the tax exemption/reduction on them, i.e. I import one and my wife imports the other, or will we have to pay tax on at least one of them. The wifes car is a much more fuel efficient Chrysler Sebring, so it would probably get the most use there as the Jeep would be too expensive to drive on a daily basis. Any suggestions?

[Mikie]

Judging by the cars you drive, I'm to assume you are from the states. The cost of transporting them, getting them to finnish standards, then paying for taxes etc is going to be far more than is needed. Lets just forget about the gas consumption. The Jeep is a guzzler, and even though the Sebring is 'ok' compared to the jeep, its still not great on gas. As they are being 2004s, their resale value is still quite high. I would sell them in the states and purchase equivalent cars in Finland. For about the same amount of money, you could probably get a couple of Volvo S40s in Finland. Far from junkers. And you'd save a couple thousand on not bringing your own.

In the past three trips I've made to Finland, there have been a total of 10 SUVs I've seen, and thats a generous estimate. Theres a reason. Gas is close to $6/gallon. You're talking about $100 to fill up your gas tank in your jeep. Thats insane!

[superiorinferior]

See the latest discussion on the pluses and minuses of owning cars in Finland here:

bb/viewtopic.php?t=8436

And, I think that car ownership is a bit of a luxury item (I was born in America and started driving illicitly when I was 15, and really love cars and driving etc..) and they are too expensive for our situation right now.


BUT!

I think, as the father of a teenager myself, that you might look around the area for good schools for the kids, rather than the most affordable (and possibly distant from new friends etc)... We moved to downtown Helsinki, and while rents are much higher, the kid is his own free agent, and driving him here and there is non existent (both because we live near friends, school and activities and because we don't have a car) ...

The public transport system is wonderful here, and while your egos might suffer a little, and you might like to hit the bus driver in the head when he slams on the brakes like an idiot, you will be saving money, the environment, and more money.

[Hank W.]

+ when you take them to the garage for the 10 000 mile checkup, remember that those cars are "fancy foreign posh luxury imports"

I have to pay 17 euros for an "American" headlight lamp for my 1988 LeMans.

[paulrenn]

I dunno about selling them in the US - I would seriously consider bringing the Jeep - perfect car for Finland IMHO, and good resale later as you mentioned (actually all American iron is popular and saleable).

Since you've already owned it some time, you probably don't need to pay excessive taxes since it can be regarded as part of "removal goods" (as long as you've had it 6 months or more - please correct me if wrong). You might be liable to VAT though since it is coming from outside the EU region.

I doubt you'd find comparable car for the same money over here even accounting for the above and shipping. Shipping is probably no more than a grand.

Oh, congrats on the new job! What will you be doing?

[Ed]

+ when you take them to the garage for the 10 000 mile checkup, remember that those cars are "fancy foreign posh luxury imports"

I have to pay 17 euros for an "American" headlight lamp for my 1988 LeMans.

Yeah, maybe I shouldn't have bought the 10 year 100,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty. Probably no Jeep dealers there to honor it.

17 euros doesn't seem really bad, that is only about 20 USD. Probably cost close to that much here. Are European headlights cheaper?

[Ed]

I dunno about selling them in the US - I would seriously consider bringing the Jeep - perfect car for Finland IMHO, and good resale later as you mentioned (actually all American iron is popular and saleable).?

Yeah, I thought it would be good at least for hunting trips.

Since you've already owned it some time, you probably don't need to pay excessive taxes since it can be regarded as part of "removal goods" (as long as you've had it 6 months or more - please correct me if wrong). You might be liable to VAT though since it is coming from outside the EU region.

That is also the way I understood it. I was wondering if we could bring them both though, that is not as clear. Maybe I should just get the wife a new one when we get there.

I doubt you'd find comparable car for the same money over here even accounting for the above and shipping. Shipping is probably no more than a grand.

The same model sells there for about 85,000 eur, way more than I paid for mine!

Oh, congrats on the new job! What will you be doing?

Senior Software Engineer.

[PeterF]

Probably no Jeep dealers there to honor it.

?

Actualy there is they are in Hatanpään, not far from Nokia Tampere.

http://www.autokeskus.fi/autokeskus/yht ... /hatanpaa/

[neil]

If you import one or both, you will not be able to a) let anyone drive them or b) sell them for two years.

If you can still make a tidy profit on one or both after that time (and import taxes are not a problem), then why not?

Congratulations on the job.

Remember to leave your shorts and short sleeve shirts at home and pack lots of warm clothes. Hank can give you the 'cultural intergration' info when you get here (he trained in crisis management).

[PeterF]

Senior Software Engineer.

The Nokia Tampere software team are very highly thought of.
I had a lot of good times with them, they work hard but play harder .

Some back ground reading for you Ed.

http://www.tut.fi/index.cfm?MainSel=-1& ... &Siteid=32


But you ought to also study this site...
Many of the SW team seem to spend a lot of time there.

http://www.plevna.fi/index_e.html

[Hank W.]

17 euros doesn't seem really bad, that is only about 20 USD. Probably cost close to that much here. Are European headlights cheaper?

Well, firstly getting to the Jeep/Chrysler dealer cross town, waiting for 2 days as they'd run out instead of going to a gas station and tossing a fiver over the counter... regular lamp is 1,90 and a H4 is 3,35 in Biltema... so I'm paying 10x more... its an 1988, chrissakes I fill the tank the value of the car doubles

[Hank W.]

Yeah, I thought it would be good at least for hunting trips.

So, you a landowner? Joining in a hunting club in Tampere area I think you have to shell out serious dosh these days - anyone into mooses know the latest fees??

BTW if you are imagining of bringing any shooting weapons over, expect to be treated as Charlie Manson by the customs & police.

[Hank W.]

We moved to downtown Helsinki, and while rents are much higher, the kid is his own free agent, and driving him here and there is non existent (both because we live near friends, school and activities and because we don't have a car) ...

+ the fact that Tampere is extremely well "centralized", unlike Helsinki. (and a load cheaper)

[Rosamunda]

Yeah, I thought it would be good at least for hunting trips.

So, you a landowner? Joining in a hunting club in Tampere area I think you have to shell out serious dosh these days - anyone into mooses know the latest fees??

BTW if you are imagining of bringing any shooting weapons over, expect to be treated as Charlie Manson by the customs & police.

Nokia has a hunting club. But the season is over (and our freezer is full) unless you are into shooting hares and crows.

[Hank W.]

Ok Ed, a few points.

- Search here of the transport in a container - do not be stingy with insurance - and get the cars FOB Tampere if you can, not Gothenburg. Thats like I sent stuff to you and you go collect from Acapulco.

- I am not sure if you are still in imperial with Chrysler, but in case you need inch tools get them there, same with extra bulbs and anything you might need. The "do it yourself" shops cater mainly for Euro and Japanese cars, (remember the "posh luxury import" bit).

- get a second set of rims to come with for winter tires. The tires you have must be Finland-legal so imagining buying them in the US check with the Finnish dealer *first* before buying. And I suppose you won't get studs there so you need to get them here anyhow (chains are illegal and driving without winter tires is also). And no, you are not being happy switching the tubes on & off the wheels, you can get tires changed for 20-40 euros but anything requiring "handwork" in Finland costs 10x what you might expect - 20 euros per tire...

- what the guys here say about worth bringing, listen up, its an "investment". the car+Finland=cheap equation does not exist, so its going to cost some. then again if you do bring the cars but decide to live in the centre the parking might prove... challenging. Depends.