Penalties for living inFinland without a permit

MPballet · Post by **MPballet** » Fri May 13, 2005 3:41 am

I've got a situation here and haven't a clue where to seek the answer. I'm hoping someone here may have some knowledge of this.
My situation is that my husband and I have been living with my sister until we can save our money to move to Finland perminantly. He immigrated from Finland to USA so that we got married here and everything is legal, etc. To make a long story short, my sister's home where we live is being forclosed and we will have no home to live in after June! We decided that we'll just go to Finland without the permit, there is no time to wait for that, we will be homeless in USA but we do have a place to live in Finland.
My question: What is the penelty I will pay in doing this?
Thanks!
~Melissa

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ColKlink · Post by **ColKlink** » Fri May 13, 2005 4:51 am

Go to jail, pay fines, or get deported. I used to go to Finland without a visa and only a US passport for the whole summer without any problems. You can do that for up to 90 days.

As long as nobody's working illegally I doubt anybody would care. Its not like you get stopped in the street by jackbooted thugs asking to see your visa. Anyway millions of people work in Europe illegally without much hastle. If you want things done legally though you can probably go to Estonia and get the visa there.

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Fri May 13, 2005 9:30 am

It should be OK as you're married. The law allows for the spouse of a Finn to enter Finland without a permit and apply for it here. A few of the Americans on the board should be able to assist with what documentation you'll need to bring along to certify the marriage.

khu · Post by **khu** » Fri May 13, 2005 9:31 am

If you're legally and provably married to a Finn, you can stay in Finland however you like as long as you apply for a residence permit before the 90 days are up, I believe. Your permit will be accepted. Even if you didn't apply it'd be hard for them to find out, but there's no reason not to just get the permit.

acwan · Post by **acwan** » Fri May 13, 2005 9:39 am

And if you go past the 90 day limit, so long as you have a permit in process or stay in the country, you should be fine. (If you exceed your stay and try to leave the country without a permit in process, then you may have difficulties getting back into the country).

Caroline · Post by **Caroline** » Fri May 13, 2005 10:37 am

MPballet wrote:I've got a situation here and haven't a clue where to seek the answer. I'm hoping someone here may have some knowledge of this.
My situation is that my husband and I have been living with my sister until we can save our money to move to Finland perminantly. He immigrated from Finland to USA so that we got married here and everything is legal, etc. To make a long story short, my sister's home where we live is being forclosed and we will have no home to live in after June! We decided that we'll just go to Finland without the permit, there is no time to wait for that, we will be homeless in USA but we do have a place to live in Finland.
My question: What is the penelty I will pay in doing this?
Thanks!
~Melissa

As far as I know, you can get the permit after arrival in Finland based on family connections (Finnish spouse), as long as you can prove that you and your Finnish partner have lived together for at least 2 years outside of Finland. I don't think you have to have been married that whole time, just living together.

The major disadvantage to doing it that way is that it takes a lot longer for your permit to be approved (I've heard up to 7 months?), and until it is approved, as a non-EU citizen you can't do anything that requires a Finnish personal I.D...work, study, qualify for Kela, etc. At least that's the way it used to be; someone will correct me if that's changed.

But as long as your husband can support you during that time, you should be fine.

Good luck- hope everything works out well

miti · Post by **miti** » Fri May 13, 2005 10:49 am

I am not sure how it is if you come to Finland from America, but I got my residence permit within 2,5 weeks after applying. I am a non-EU citizen married to an EU citizen (but not a Finn) and I applied it here in Finland, after my arrival. I came to Finland from Germany after living there a few years so I don't know if living in another EU country before might have made things easier. When I found out I would be moving to Finland I called the Finnish embassy in Germany and asked them where I should apply for the permit but they said that the moment I am married to a EU citizen who would also live in Finland I should do it only after arrival.

Safest thing for you would be to call the Finnish embassy and check it for yourself, but I think it would be easier than you expect and you wouldn't be doing anything illegal.

Good luck!

Miti.

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Fri May 13, 2005 11:12 am

Where to apply for the permit?
Family members of a Finnish citizen

Family members and minor, unmarried children of a Finnish citizen may come to Finland without having acquired a residence permit in advance and apply for the permit in Finland. They may stay in Finland while waiting for the decision on the permit application.

One thing:your husband must inform the Embassy that he's been married so it'll be "in the books". Easier that way.

mookoo · Post by **mookoo** » Fri May 13, 2005 11:41 am

Caroline wrote:As far as I know, you can get the permit after arrival in Finland based on family connections (Finnish spouse), as long as you can prove that you and your Finnish partner have lived together for at least 2 years outside of Finland. I don't think you have to have been married that whole time, just living together.

The two years of cohabitation is only required when you are applying under "common law marriage" or "co-habitation". If you are married then you don't need to go through that, especially if you have been married for a while.

Caroline wrote:The major disadvantage to doing it that way is that it takes a lot longer for your permit to be approved (I've heard up to 7 months?), and until it is approved, as a non-EU citizen you can't do anything that requires a Finnish personal I.D...work, study, qualify for Kela, etc. At least that's the way it used to be; someone will correct me if that's changed.

It doesn't necessarily have to take that long. I applied after I arrived in Finland and I got my permit in 3 weeks. And it probably could have been done sooner, except the lady who processes the permits went on vacation for a few days. We went to the police station to turn in the paperwork rather than going through UVI. I would got to the police station before going to UVI because they do it much faster, and the cost is lower too. The fee is 175 euros for forms submitted directly to UVI but only 100 euros if submitted by the police! We even printed it off of our computer (and we have a really crappy printer) and took it in and they accepted it. Just bring your marriage certificate and birth certificates if you have kids, your passport, some papers from your husbands work stating his income (so you can prove he can support you), and some cash. If they need anything else they will tell you and let you go get it while they hold your paperwork. If it does take a while (more than the 3 months allowed with just a passport), you can still stay as long as it is being processed ... so no worries. Its true that you can't work or qualify for KELA until you get the permit, but actually you can still study if you want to. I joined my Finnish class before I got my permit, I just had to pay it out of pocket rather than the government paying for it. It wasn't much though, 75 euros. That wouldn't even by a calculus book in the US, so I didn't mind!

Click on this link for the UVI forms. You need to print and fill out UVI 101 and UVI 102. But you can even wait to do that until you get settled in Finland. There's no rush. Don't hesitate to ask if you have any more quesitons!

Cheers,
Libby

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Fri May 13, 2005 12:01 pm

The processing times aren't comparable. If you submit the application at Nowheremäki, pop. 500 police, where you are the only foreigner this year so far, the processing time might be for some odd reason slightly shorter compared to the big city where it'll be in the pile with 1000 others waiting for the coffee break to end.

mookoo · Post by **mookoo** » Fri May 13, 2005 12:11 pm

It might be true that one police station may take longer than others (Helsinki vs. Sticks), but I still think the number of requests at any police station is lower than the number being submitted directly to UVI. It sounds to me like UVI is constantly clogged with all types of permit applications from people all over the world, student permits, work permits, as well as citizenship applications, yadda yadda yadda ... causing them to take months to get anything done. But its still cheaper at the police station anyway and word of mouth says its much faster, although I guess there are no guarantees about the time. Anyway, it doesn't really matter since you can still stay while its being processed.

RA · Post by RA » Fri May 13, 2005 12:19 pm

I'd still check the procedure from the embassy before you come over. The procedures might vary for different nationals...I know one married couple ( he- Finn and she- Dominican Republic) who came to Finland and she had to go back and apply for her permits from there, not here. On the other hand... the Americans on this site seem to have had no such issues, so I guess you shouldn't either.

MPballet · Post by **MPballet** » Fri May 13, 2005 3:25 pm

Thank you my friends! Our marriage is registered in Finland

and I do plan to complete the legal stuff once I get there. I just thought I had to do it before I arrived or else I'd face being deported or something worse. I'm not going to work for at least for the first year. My husband is secured with a job as soon as he arrives so we will have income.
I will now contact the embassy. Ahh, my mind is relieved now.

Andulka · Post by **Andulka** » Mon May 16, 2005 10:55 am

miti wrote:I am not sure how it is if you come to Finland from America, but I got my residence permit within 2,5 weeks after applying.

I guess it very much depends on the country where the application is left. My husband got his permit in one day at the Finnish Embassy in Prague in the pre-EU days (7 years ago). Undoubtedly his application was one of the very few if not the only one of its kind there that year.

He had his passport and our marriage certificate with him, if memory serves, and the whole process seemed to be a mere matter of stamping the passport. They even filled in the application for him as he has dyslexia and letters have a habit of jumping to places where they don't belong...
Nowadays the family members of a Finn can leave their application here, so you shouldn't have any problem.

acwan · Post by **acwan** » Mon May 16, 2005 7:26 pm

There's no predicting the length of time it takes to get an application approved, even if you submit it through the same place.

I always submit my applications for residence permit through the local police station. It took me 1 month the first time to get it approved, and the past two times, it's taken 5-6 months to get it renewed.

I was told the reason for the delay was because there is no fast-tracking, which means my app goes into the queue with everyone else's (including asylum seekers, those applying for the first time, student applicants, etc.)

From what I understand, the ministry of labor only has the app for a month (for the work permit portion). This means that for the rest of the time, the app's just sitting in the queue at the police station.

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