Cheating on an entrance exam

[Salli]

i know what i see everyday in school. my experience mirrors that of my friends in other departments in the same polytechnic and of others in polytechnics all over finland. i stand by everything i have said. you and all chinese are owed no apology. on the contrary, as a chinese, perhaps you might consider apologizing on behalf of all your compatriots for their uncouth ways. they make the lesser proportion of you who do have some ability and some small sense of propriety look bad. And finally, perhaps you need to reassess your image of the chinese. i have been to china a few times. i have seen the way modern china functions. despite all the material advances, still dominated by a very primeval mind-set.

[Hank W.]

There might be a slight "quality difference" of students admitted to HSE and some polytechnic.

[zam]

There might be a slight "quality difference" of students admitted to HSE and some polytechnic.

Not necessarily, as many come to Finland first into some polytechnic and then apply to HSE... And when judging and selecting students on the basis of papers only there's the higher risk of admitting someone who "looks good on paper". In recent years polytechnics have arranged joint entrance examinations in China in cooperation with the British Council and there's always been someone from Finland present there and included also an interview in English. With the SATs and other examinations there's naturally always the risk of cheating, or that the clever Chinese have somehow managed to send "a wiser cousin" to do the test.

[stewy]

for anyone interested, 6 students in my course from cameroon were officially expelled yesterday. they will have their residence permits revoked and they will be kicked out of the country in the coming days if they haven't been already.

[EP]

What did they do?

[Hank W.]

Wow... how big was the class to start with?

[rapses]

I agree with you Stewy. At my school in Kokkola,. I have come across many Chinese, Bangladeshis, Nepalis and Africans who cannot even speak a single sentence in English. I wonder how they could gain admission. It is not something which is hidden, it is pretty obvious.

[stewy]

What did they do?

the reason given to us was that they used false certificates when applying, but i think it extends to their 'participation' in the entrance exam as well.

Wow... how big was the class to start with?

hmm i think 22 was the original number including myself and the cameroonians. might have been some others who just never came. currently there are only 13 of us going to class but a couple are coming back.

At my school in Kokkola,. I have come across many Chinese, Bangladeshis, Nepalis and Africans who cannot even speak a single sentence in English. I wonder how they could gain admission. It is not something which is hidden, it is pretty obvious.

yeh it was the same with these. they had no idea how to use a computer and one guy couldn't even spell 'engineer' which is a word in the name of the degree. i think they need to be more careful in their selection process.

[zam]

Nowadays there is indeed a huge "quality difference" between Chinese studying in international master's programs in universities and those who study in polytechnics. Around 5 or 6 years ago they were approximately the same, since back then Chinese students did not really know what kind of school polytechnic is and came through agencies in China. There was a huge tide of quitting polytechnic and applying to university in year 2002 and 2003.

I could also say that there are also huge quality differences between the Chinese (and other foreigners) in different polytechnics as well, not only between the polytechnics and universities.

[zpan]

Nowadays there is indeed a huge "quality difference" between Chinese studying in international master's programs in universities and those who study in polytechnics. Around 5 or 6 years ago they were approximately the same, since back then Chinese students did not really know what kind of school polytechnic is and came through agencies in China. There was a huge tide of quitting polytechnic and applying to university in year 2002 and 2003.

I could also say that there are also huge quality differences between the Chinese (and other foreigners) in different polytechnics as well, not only between the polytechnics and universities.

How about some Finns, do u consider that u r the noblest people in the world. There are also different quality people in Finland, like me who now is studying in a small study hall. Two Finnish students are talking loudly, they don't care several students sitting around, being industrious in studying. They do also refuse to turn down the phone and calling in the small room loudly~~is it popular that everyone so high quality to be self-centric in Fin and racism to other people without any ablity to self-revisal??
I remember that some people be mentioned ill-manner before. Yes, I have to admit that the some Finns are ill-manner and don't respect others too. This situation doesn't only happen in my university, I have been to Vaasa and visited the library of Vaasa Poly, some Finnish stus also have talked loudly without any ashamed.
Please don't be racism. The conditions u guys mentioned also happen in Finland!!!

[enk]

for anyone interested, 6 students in my course from cameroon were officially expelled yesterday. they will have their residence permits revoked and they will be kicked out of the country in the coming days if they haven't been already.

Darn that you live in Jyväskylä. I was hoping it was one of the 20
idiots living upstairs of me.

-enk

[sammy]

How about some Finns, do u consider that u r the noblest people in the world. There are also different quality people in Finland...

Of course we Finns are no better than anyone else. It would be equally false to say that "all Finns are honest" as (for example) "all Cameroonians cheat in entrance exams".

I don't know how many Finns cheat in their entrance exam, apply with false documents, or are found guilty with e.g. plagiarism in examinations / writing their thesis. Because a Finn has an equal capacity of being a complete jerk as anyone else, it is however quite likely that such things happen - noticed or unnoticed.

We may argue about the likelihood of such an event untli we are blue in the face, THAT however will not remove the fact that cheating in order to gain a study placement is wrong - wherever you come from, or whether it's just one student doing that vs. several.

[zam]

How about some Finns, do u consider that u r the noblest people in the world. There are also different quality people in Finland...

Definetely, we do not live in a paradise. Nor was my message intended as you seem to have understood it. But have you e.g. asked the people disturbing you in the study hall to be quiet? It might help in this particular situation .

But as Sammy said, no matter who cheats and in what situation it is still as wrong. And as I have said earlier, the educational institutions treat all their students equally whether they are Finns or foreigners, but in case of foreigners the consequenses might be further- and wider-reaching than in case of Finns.

[Hank W.]

They do also refuse to turn down the phone and calling in the small room loudly~~is it popular that everyone so high quality to be self-centric in Fin and racism to other people without any ablity to self-revisal??

Are you an example of these students who can't even write a single sentence in English?

[Hank W.]

currently there are only 13 of us going to class but a couple are coming back.

Ummm... thats getting near the threshold. There is a difference3 between poly and uni funding IIRC, was it per enrolled and per graduated in time; but you generally have a "minimum class size" to go through with a course. So if the class sizes get too small there will be far less implementations of certain course modules which then doesn't allow too much flexibility. Depends of course how many other modules there are and so forth, but sometimes it gets silly.