Unbelievable Pizza

[Karhunkoski]

and usually costing about 5 Euros even in a white tablecloth restaurant

Sorry to pick you up on this point janiheisk, but perhaps you could also quantify this Italian 5 Euro pizza with the fact that the average salary in Italy is roughly half that of Finland.

[mCowboy]

quantify this Italian 5 Euro pizza with the fact that the average salary in Italy is roughly half that of Finland.

I was just saying - 5 Euros in a white tablecloth restaurant.

But as long as you bring it up - I find it amazing how a good portion of the populace of this forum - and Finland - has been totally brainwashed with the concept of 'Finnish salaries' (ask the guy who owns one - most don't make all that much)

Just how much of a 5 Euro pizza do you think is from 'salaries?' Not all that much when you calculate. And certainly not close to explaining anything.

There was one thread here about Wishbone Spritzers - and a ridiculous 6 Euro K-City Market price - a horde of brainwashed beings posted in with a defense of this being a very sensible and reasonable price (from a HUGE corp - Unilever - with humungous distribution channels in Europe).

The local Meijer stores here in Ann Arbor, MI where I presently am - is selling the Wishbone Spritzers - same size for 60-70 CENTS!!!

Amazing how when one crosses into Finland some become economic DUNCES!!!!

somebody needs a hug...

[Karhunkoski]

Just how much of a 5 Euro pizza do you think is from 'salaries?' Not all that much when you calculate. And certainly not close to explaining anything.

I wasn't suggesting that at all.

Let me clarify

If the average salary in Italy is half that of Finland, you would also expect the average cost of living (including pizzas) to be much lower too.

It's quite possible that right now someone is complaining on an Italian forum that 5 euros is very expensive for a pizza, you see, it's all relative.

[kay30]

Personally I have never seen a Kosher pizza in NY area and bought pizza all over for 15 years there.

There used to be a kosher pizza place on 34th btw Park and Madison. I ate there all the time. It was OK, but not great. There was also another one on 37th. Both were OK if you were in the area, but not great.

[aspiala]

Personally I'd vote for:

Villetta (The pizzas made with Italian products, not the regular ones--they have two separate pizza lists)
Rivoletto
Nerone
Kotipizza (Parmiamo is quite decent)

Had horrible food experiences at La Famiglia. Old oil, etc.

Abroad, the best pizza ever was in Rome, Italy, Chicago, IL(yay deep dish) and New Haven, CT(Frank Sinatra used to have New Haven pizza flown in to NY). But it isn't really fair to compare.

I also don't see why pizza has to be cheap by default. It's a food, not necessarily junk food. After the price drops below a certain amount, there's no way the ingredients aren't from a can, and the result suffers horribly.

[sinikala]

Not that this has anything to do with pizza, but for the sake of settling the argument... although GDP per capita is not a direct measure of salary, it's a pretty good indicator, the GDP figures for 2005 are here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of ... PP_2005.29

The numbers are in Euros and as a %age of the EU 27 average. Finland is about 10% higher than Italy in GDP.

Finland €25,774 115.1%
Richest Åland €31,245 139.5%
Poorest East Finland €19,114 85.3%

Italy €23,474 104.8%
Richest Province of Bolzano-Bozen €30,613 136.7%
Poorest Sicily €15,098 67.4%


We've had this pizza discussion before... a couple of years ago. Yanks do the best deep pan (my personal favourite) - I would kill to have a Pizza Hut up here, or a Dominos. Rosso's deep pan is just about passable compared to those.

TBH the thin crust pizza I've had in Italy wasn't great, maybe I was expecting too much. I've had better from a little Italian place in Earl's Court ... name escapes me, must go back some day... I was also surprised that the pizza in Malta was fantastic, crisp all the way across the bottom, no soggy areas in the middle.

Koti pizza is hardly stunning, but it is usually edible, and is pretty much the same product from whichever shop you buy it, sadly the one in Pori centre closed down... tight arsed- locals.

Decent thin crust pizza ... a bit surprising as it's run by Sodexho, but I always enjoy the pizza in Keltsu.

[Rosamunda]

Nobody has mentioned Denis in Turku, so I will. Good thin crust pizza and nice fresh toppings. I have never been disappointed there. There is a Denis in Helsinki but I have never been and I don't know if it's the same owner as the famous Turku one.

Classic pizza in Iso Omena is really good and always full (not many tables). Nice thin crispy base. They now have a pizzeria in Hankö and one or two others I believe.

Best pizza I ever had was actually in Naples somewhere. We had been to Pompei and got diverted off the motorway on the way home, got hopelessly lost and ended up, starving hungry, driving into a beautiful (but very run down) villa in the suburbs. We sat in the garden and a couple of kids (maybe 10-12 yrs old) served us pizza. They were delicious, I think we managed two each. Would never be able to find the place again, it was 100% fluke that we ended up there.

Am not a fan of Chicago style deep pan pizza. All bread and no topping. Prefer the Italian recipe, thin crispy base, lots of tomato and mozzarella (fresh). A good quattro formaggio is probably my favourite, but am quite partial to spinach, egg and lots of garlic too. But definitely NO PINEAPPLE

[Karhunkoski]

Salaries in Italy HALF of those in Finland?

I really don't believe it - nothing in my experience says so - any data?

OK, the difference isn't as high as I thought (had been told):

Average net annual in Finland is $25,525 net
Average net annual in Italy is $19,861

(the comparison was made in US dollars)

So they are 28.5% higher in Finland, there was even an article last week about Italy having some of the lowest salaries in Europe! (I think most can get by with the Italian):

http://www.corriere.it/economia/08_marz ... c667.shtml

On that Italian salary, you will also pay a flat 23% income tax on the total amount, more than you would in Finland on the same amount.

So in summary, you're incorrect to shout off about €5 pizzas in Italy and compare that market to Finland, they are different animals.

[enk]

Well duh, janiheisk, there's a good reason they're called CHICAGO-STYLE DEEP-DISH PIZZAS and not NEAPOLITAN-STYLE PIZZAS MADE IN CHICAGO.
For crying out loud.

And since you really don't seem to have a clue about them, there's more than one type of CHICAGO-STYLE PIZZA.

-enk

[mCowboy]

For Pete's sake (sorry Pete's)...

Pizza is nowadays anything with a baked base, tomato and cheese... anything else is up to discretion of the baker...

Another thing is... what's "Authentic Italian Style Pizza"...

Kotipizza may not be authentic Italian style pizza, but since it's the biggest chain of pizzerias in Finland, they must be doing something right. Chicago style deep dish pizza is another variation made to accommodate the local taste, not "authentic Italian taste" for Italians who might not even ever been to the US.

It's impossible to (re)create authentic Italian pizza in Finland, simply because the ingredients are not the same. Yes, you do have flour, water, tomatoes and cheese in Finland, but they are not the same as they are in Italy. When I was in Milan last June, I tasted tomatoes that tasted complete different from Finnish tomatoes. Same thing with meat and cheese.

Only place to get authentic food is the original birthplace of the food.

Kebabs here are totally different from Turkey, they even have different names. Same thing it Asian foods or TexMex. This is due to lack of the same tasting ingredients.

There's a reason why Guinness tastes different in Ireland...

so Janiheisk... get another hug from whoever you're getting them and stop this dumb food snobbery. Yes, we all want to eat and/or make authentic food as possible, however it's simply not the same as in it's birthplace and we all accept that... even with the high price of more or less authentic foods/ingredients outside the "authentic" source of the food....

[mCowboy]

(And 28% diff in salaries will end up saying squat about pizza price diffs.)

it's just not the salaries... have you compared the labor costs...

[mCowboy]

it's just not the salaries... have you compared the labor costs...

Hold the phone - that's the SAME parameter - unless George W has some new definitions for us

how?

Salary = what person earns

Labor costs = what is the cost to an employer (unemployment fees, health care fees, etc)

For example

Italy: Salary 1500e + labor costs 22% = 1830e = cost to an employer
Finland Salary 2200e + labor costs 50% = 3300e = cost to an employer

Where do you think that labor cost is charged from? The customers... and what do the customers buy? They buy Pizza... = pizza is more expensive in Finland.

Why do immigrant owned pizzerias have cheap pizzas? Their salaries are lower, and some don't pay the labor costs = they can sell pizza cheaper.

Can't believe you're so naive...

[Karhunkoski]

Out of bored interest, I checked out average labour costs for pizza restaurants. Looks like food and labour both contribute 30-40% each, to the overall cost of a pizza.

[Mark I.]

I hear all the time those "one can get i big pizza or kebab for 2 euros in Germany, Italy, Spain..." - sure, but on those prices they are illegal, ie. no taxes, hardly any salaries etc. paid. Otherwise, it's simply not possible. It seems to me that officials in those countries might look those "businesses" between their fingers.

BTW, I have a habit ordering (on weekend hangovers ) 2 pizzas delivered to your door from Pizza Bazaar, 14€. Those are good - not the best I'v eaten - but good. Plus the service is excellent (unlike - Eira Plaza, for example).

[ScubaGirl]

Anyone complaining about Chicago deep dish pizzas being all bread and no toppings has never actually had a Chicago deep dish IN CHICAGO. Imitators elsewhere may attempt at making them and slapping the Chicago label on it, but it's usually garbage. I ate one in Tampa a few years ago & it was a joke.

funny how passionate people get over pizza