Refugees

[Upphew]

Secondly, I think it's a cruel person who would turn down women and children who are seeking safety from war or persecution. All the press photos show plenty of pictures of women and children. But we all know that the reality is that 80% of these refugees are young males. Why doesn't the mainsteam media photos and coverage reflect the reality? That bothers me too.

Percentage isn't that bad. But not far from that: http://yle.fi/uutiset/ylivoimainen_enem ... ta/8354207

[Piet]

Secondly, I think it's a cruel person who would turn down women and children who are seeking safety from war or persecution. All the press photos show plenty of pictures of women and children. But we all know that the reality is that 80% of these refugees are young males. Why doesn't the mainsteam media photos and coverage reflect the reality? That bothers me too.

Percentage isn't that bad. But not far from that: http://yle.fi/uutiset/ylivoimainen_enem ... ta/8354207

As I read (in my Finnish ) 19.632 refugees, from what are 15.500 men and 2.816 women 19.632 - 15.500 - 2.816 = 1316...?? kids? so 79% Men, 14% women, 7% kids.
13.848 from Iraq = 71% from Iraq

Just to explain how big the difference is from the mentioned 80%

edit typo

[Karhunkoski]

Secondly, I think it's a cruel person who would turn down women and children who are seeking safety from war or persecution. All the press photos show plenty of pictures of women and children. But we all know that the reality is that 80% of these refugees are young males. Why doesn't the mainsteam media photos and coverage reflect the reality? That bothers me too.

Percentage isn't that bad. But not far from that: http://yle.fi/uutiset/ylivoimainen_enem ... ta/8354207

15 people in the picture. 5 are children. As I said in the above post, the pictures in the msm do not reflect the reality.

Here are some more asylum seeker articles from YLE:

Focus of the shot: Mother + 3 children
http://yle.fi/uutiset/arvio_turvapaikan ... 00/8349657

Focus of the shot: 1 child
http://yle.fi/uutiset/noin_sata_ihmista ... le/8347298

Focus of the shot: 2 children
http://yle.fi/uutiset/maahanmuuttoviras ... en/8271479

Focus of the shot: 1 child
http://yle.fi/uutiset/matka_tulevaisuut ... an/8324105

Pictures of kids in trouble really pull my heart strings. The question though, it why the pictures used are often not representative?

[irnbru]

Why is it when you disagree with letting a load of unpleasant religious nutters in to Finland lefties always accuse you of being ignorant.

... and here's another reason why you are ignorant. You are discriminating based on someone's religious beliefs.

People with religious beliefs are retards.

[Marsh04]

Why is it when you disagree with letting a load of unpleasant religious nutters in to Finland lefties always accuse you of being ignorant.

... and here's another reason why you are ignorant. You are discriminating based on someone's religious beliefs.

People with religious beliefs are retards.

So you think most of the Perussuomalaiset are retards?

[irnbru]

So you think most of the Perussuomalaiset are retards?

That would be 100% correct

[Jacquelineh]

Why is it when you disagree with letting a load of unpleasant religious nutters in to Finland lefties always accuse you of being ignorant.

... and here's another reason why you are ignorant. You are discriminating based on someone's religious beliefs.

People with religious beliefs are retards.

To be frank, I have to agree on this. Religions are the roots to most of the problems!

[Piet]

I guess Yle picked up on our discussion here too.. little later than I started this topic..
It seems there are little differences in the numbers between the Finnish and English article.. (or is that my understanding of Finnish or the translation into English of Yle.. )

http://yle.fi/uutiset/yle_head_count_ro ... le/8355945 (for the Finnish article see http://yle.fi/uutiset/ylivoimainen_enem ... ta/8354207)

[ahkera]

Finnish Real Estate Management Federation suggested that asylum seekers could be offered yard work and jobs helping to look after children and the elderly.
http://yle.fi/uutiset/mondays_papers_jo ... ws/8353988

Wow i also want to register as a refugee if it would ease access to any work.

[Piet]

Some stuff to think about..

Today I discussed this Refugee "problem" with my brother that visited me from abroad. We had the same discussion like we have here at the forum in this thread.

In general it came to this that he defended all the refugees which are trying to "escape" to Europe, even if they were not in danger. In other words he somehow condones the economic refugee.

As has proven out of this thread, my point of view is slightly different form that. To put oil on the fire of the discussion, I suggested that it is rather egoistic and selfish to flee the scene and leave your fellow countrymen behind instead of trying to do something about it and fight for your country.

He had a reply on that that I did not see coming... "war is made by the banks so all should refuse to fight it". Which in an ideal world would be the perfect solution. He is a real pacifist and refuses to fight any enemy. So my call upon his patriotic feelings went to waste.

However we are not living in an ideal world and the Fight, from the refugee fleeing scene, is against a relentless adversary that will misuse this situation and cry victory over your decapitated pacifistic body.

After finding out that it is no use calling upon any "defend your country" feeling, I asked him how he would handle if he would live in a hypothetical student home occupied by 3 girls 2 other men and him. Now one of the male students rapes and blackmails all 3 girls every day, what would he do, go do something about it not knowing if it would mean he would bring his own life into danger doing so, or would he flee the scene...

His answer was: "fleeing the scene", he is not stupid he said (but he is a socialist that welcomes the economic refugees). I told him that was pretty egoistic and he answered that he was not egoistic he is a pacifist and therefore would not fight.

So I asked him another question: what would you do when, you would walk with your girlfriend or wife, in the city in the evening and someone jumps your wife and starts to rape her. You have a knife with you and could save your wife by stabbing the attacker of your wife, are you still the pacifist and let him go ahead, or do you kill him.
His answer was: "yes but that is different" he would kill the guy.

So even the most pacifist guy I know (my brother) would not leave behind his wife (and kids) and do something about the ones threatening his family.

So then what is wrong with the current refugee picture of mainly Men instead of what in western society is considered normal: bringing or keeping your women and children safe and fight yourself to make it possible for your women and children to return on a later date to their home grounds.
Is this our western twisted view, or are the mainly Male refugees, a result of an education and growing up in a region, with a women oppressive religion, where women are worth nothing compared to a man?

I do have a solution for the big amount of young Iraqi males without family entering Finland as a refugee:
Give them Finnish citizenship a.s.a.p. and then they are (made) obligated to enter the Army, make it a separate division for Arabic speaking soldiers and send them as UN peacekeepers back to Iraq the next year after their training is completed.

This would help their own country more than anything else. Finnish peace keepers with UN backing that are born in Iraq and speak the language and understand the culture. What is better than that?

....but I guess that would be too easy.


That's al folks...

[FinnGuyHelsinki]

I do have a solution for the big amount of young Iraqi males without family entering Finland as a refugee:
Give them Finnish citizenship a.s.a.p. and then they are (made) obligated to enter the Army, make it a separate division for Arabic speaking soldiers and send them as UN peacekeepers back to Iraq the next year after their training is completed.

Taking part in peacekeeping operations is voluntary (essentially it's a job). Creating a non-Finnish/Swedish speaking outfit would put enormous strain on the military.

[Tiwaz]

I do have a solution for the big amount of young Iraqi males without family entering Finland as a refugee:
Give them Finnish citizenship a.s.a.p. and then they are (made) obligated to enter the Army, make it a separate division for Arabic speaking soldiers and send them as UN peacekeepers back to Iraq the next year after their training is completed.

Taking part in peacekeeping operations is voluntary (essentially it's a job). Creating a non-Finnish/Swedish speaking outfit would put enormous strain on the military.

It also includes giving them citizenship which is LAST thing these people should get. With citizenship comes privileges after all.

Far better, and more efficient, solution would be simple definition in dealing with asylum requests. Any male of 15 or above coming from conflict zone will be considered military deserter, who do not EVER get asylum. Gather them into groups, put them in containers and deliver said containers (quickly and humanely of course, they should be in good health when reaching destination) to their country of origin. And leave various groups information on where these containers can be found and when. They are free to recruit deserters to their cause.

Either they do not come to Finland or they are made to return to fight through the war on their own soil instead of running from it.

[Oho]

It also includes giving them citizenship which is LAST thing these people should get. With citizenship comes privileges after all.

In Finland, you wish, citizenship is increasingly turning into a unilateral deal, it bestows responsibilities on individual but really not on state. I would give up mine in a heart beat but alas I am unable to due to legal reasons, I do not have a second citizenship.

[Tiwaz]

It also includes giving them citizenship which is LAST thing these people should get. With citizenship comes privileges after all.

In Finland, you wish, citizenship is increasingly turning into a unilateral deal, it bestows responsibilities on individual but really not on state. I would give up mine in a heart beat but alas I am unable to due to legal reasons, I do not have a second citizenship.

It gives your right to vote, in remote chance of effecting a change, right to aid from embassy and above all else...
YOU CAN'T DEPORT CITIZEN!

[sky2]

I would give up mine in a heart beat but alas I am unable to due to legal reasons, I do not have a second citizenship.

If you are so unhappy with your Finnish citizenship, you didn't have to take it at first place, assuming you are not a native here. You can always renounce it and get back your original citizenship. Just saying.