Citizenship Application 2023

[FinlandGirl]

There is no death penalty in Russia,

That's not true.

In practice, it is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_p ... ormat=true
Capital punishment is a legal penalty in Russia, but is not used due to a moratorium and no death sentences or executions have occurred since 2 August 1996. Russia has a moratorium implicitly established by President Boris Yeltsin in 1996, and explicitly established by the Constitutional Court of Russia in 1999 and reaffirmed in 2009.

That's obsolete information.

This was reaffirmed until the ratification of the Sixth Protocol to the European Convention on Human Rights, which never happened.

Last year Russia withdrew from the Council of Europe before they would have been expelled, the European Convention on Human Rights therefore no longer applies to Russia.

Once again: for most countries, their nationals who have other citizenships are still considered their citizens only. In some cases, countries sign agreements that allow each of them to recognize a person's obligations to other countries, but that is relatively rare.

That's fake news.

The Finnish Conscription Act says that every man who has already served at least 4 months as conscript in the military of another country whose citizenship he has is exempt from Finnish peacetime conscription.

How is that relevant here? Finland is exempting someone from military service in Finland. It has nothing to do with someone's obligations to a different country.

Your "nationals who have other citizenships are still considered their citizens only" is fake news, as is evident by the text of the Finnish Conscription Act.

After allowing dual citizenship 20 years ago people finally start thinking how to deal with people being citizens of both countries in the next war.
"Pick a side" by going back to not allowing dual citizenship would be a solution to this problem of conflicting loyalties.

[hellofelicia]

That's not true.

In practice, it is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_p ... ormat=true
Capital punishment is a legal penalty in Russia, but is not used due to a moratorium and no death sentences or executions have occurred since 2 August 1996. Russia has a moratorium implicitly established by President Boris Yeltsin in 1996, and explicitly established by the Constitutional Court of Russia in 1999 and reaffirmed in 2009.

That's obsolete information.

This was reaffirmed until the ratification of the Sixth Protocol to the European Convention on Human Rights, which never happened.

Last year Russia withdrew from the Council of Europe before they would have been expelled, the European Convention on Human Rights therefore no longer applies to Russia.

This is irrelevant because the moratorium was not imposed by ECHR. Unless it is lifted by Constitutional Court of Russia, it is still effective.

Your "nationals who have other citizenships are still considered their citizens only" is fake news, as is evident by the text of the Finnish Conscription Act.

A country can acknowledge that its citizens have other citizenships but not acknowledge their obligations to other countries. That is what "considering someone as a citizen" means in this context. If anything, your conscription example confirms what I am saying: if you're a Finnish national, you're obligated to serve in the army even if you're a dual national, because you have an obligation to Finland. You are only exempt if you have already been through the basic military training, so that the Finnish state doesn't have to spend money training you again, and in the peacetime, so that your obligation to Finland still remains even if you're a dual citizen.

[FinlandGirl]

In practice, it is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_p ... ormat=true
Capital punishment is a legal penalty in Russia, but is not used due to a moratorium and no death sentences or executions have occurred since 2 August 1996. Russia has a moratorium implicitly established by President Boris Yeltsin in 1996, and explicitly established by the Constitutional Court of Russia in 1999 and reaffirmed in 2009.

That's obsolete information.

This was reaffirmed until the ratification of the Sixth Protocol to the European Convention on Human Rights, which never happened.

Last year Russia withdrew from the Council of Europe before they would have been expelled, the European Convention on Human Rights therefore no longer applies to Russia.

This is irrelevant because the moratorium was not imposed by ECHR. Unless it is lifted by Constitutional Court of Russia, it is still effective.

It is relevant, since it might soon be lifted due to the reason for it no longer existing.

Your "nationals who have other citizenships are still considered their citizens only" is fake news, as is evident by the text of the Finnish Conscription Act.

A country can acknowledge that its citizens have other citizenships but not acknowledge their obligations to other countries. That is what "considering someone as a citizen" means in this context. If anything, your conscription example confirms what I am saying: if you're a Finnish national, you're obligated to serve in the army even if you're a dual national, because you have an obligation to Finland. You are only exempt if you have already been through the basic military training, so that the Finnish state doesn't have to spend money training you again, and in the peacetime, so that your obligation to Finland still remains even if you're a dual citizen.

Your "nationals who have other citizenships are still considered their citizens only" is still fake news.

A few years ago Finland did change the law to permit Finnish citizens to also have other citizenships, and Finnish laws are now explicitly handling the case that Finnish citizens might also be citizens of other countries.

Should Finnish citizens who also have the citizenship of the enemy during a war have a duty to fight against their other country of citizenship, or should such people with questionable loyalty to Finland be put into concentration camps for the duration of the war (like the US did during WWII)?

By permitting dual citizenship Finland acknowledges that some Finnish citizens will also have equal loyalty with the enemy during the next war, and these conflicting loyalties have to be accounted for.

[hellofelicia]

That's obsolete information.

This was reaffirmed until the ratification of the Sixth Protocol to the European Convention on Human Rights, which never happened.

Last year Russia withdrew from the Council of Europe before they would have been expelled, the European Convention on Human Rights therefore no longer applies to Russia.

This is irrelevant because the moratorium was not imposed by ECHR. Unless it is lifted by Constitutional Court of Russia, it is still effective.

It is relevant, since it might soon be lifted due to the reason for it no longer existing.

Ifs and mights with no deadline in sight are not good reasons to say that something is true. Your statement that Russia currently has a moratorium on death penalty, even though in theory it can be lifted, is currently false.

A few years ago Finland did change the law to permit Finnish citizens to also have other citizenships, and Finnish laws are now explicitly handling the case that Finnish citizens might also be citizens of other countries.

It seems like you have some issues with reading comprehension. I'll quote myself:
A country can acknowledge that its citizens have other citizenships but not acknowledge their obligations to other countries. That is what "considering someone as a citizen" means in this context.
If you have an example of the opposite, feel free to share it.

Should Finnish citizens who also have the citizenship of the enemy during a war have a duty to fight against their other country of citizenship

They do; the Constitution doesn't make exceptions for dual nationals: https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/ ... #a731-1999

, or should such people with questionable loyalty to Finland be put into concentration camps for the duration of the war (like the US did during WWII)?

Placing people in internment (not concentration ffs) camps was deemed unconstitutional and people who ended up there received reparations. This may or may not happen again, but we're leaving the realm of legal regulations here so it's no use to speculate on that.

[FinlandGirl]

A few years ago Finland did change the law to permit Finnish citizens to also have other citizenships, and Finnish laws are now explicitly handling the case that Finnish citizens might also be citizens of other countries.

It seems like you have some issues with reading comprehension. I'll quote myself:
A country can acknowledge that its citizens have other citizenships but not acknowledge their obligations to other countries. That is what "considering someone as a citizen" means in this context.
If you have an example of the opposite, feel free to share it.

It seems like you have some issues with reading comprehension. I'll quote myself:
Your "nationals who have other citizenships are still considered their citizens only" is fake news, as is evident by the text of the Finnish Conscription Act.

Should Finnish citizens who also have the citizenship of the enemy during a war have a duty to fight against their other country of citizenship

They do; the Constitution doesn't make exceptions for dual nationals: https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/ ... #a731-1999

The Finnish Conscription Act does already acknowledge that dual citizens might also have obligations in the militaries of other countries and does make an exception to avoid double peacetime conscription.

The discussion how to deal with Finnish citizens who also have to citizenship of countries like Russia or Somalia or Afghanistan when Finland enters a war against their other country of citizenship is just starting.

, or should such people with questionable loyalty to Finland be put into concentration camps for the duration of the war (like the US did during WWII)?

Placing people in internment (not concentration ffs) camps

Unfortunately there are many anti-Asian racists like you trying to whitewash US concentration camps by calling them "internment camps".

Even the American Jewish Committee agrees that these were concentration camps:
https://www.janm.org/press/release/amer ... -statement

[hellofelicia]

Should Finnish citizens who also have the citizenship of the enemy during a war have a duty to fight against their other country of citizenship

They do; the Constitution doesn't make exceptions for dual nationals: https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/ ... #a731-1999

The Finnish Conscription Act does already acknowledge that dual citizens might also have obligations in the militaries of other countries and does make an exception to avoid double peacetime conscription.

[/quote]

Once again: it is the duty of all Finnish citizens to defend their country in the time of war as written in the Constitution. How is the exception for peacetime conscription relevant to this? Even so, that exemption is not due to the "obligations in the militaries of other countries" - if you haven't completed service you won't be exempt despite being obligated to defend another country in a war.

You seem to talk confidently about a lot of things that you only know on a surface level and then you have to reach far and wide and draw from unrelated examples to support your statements. I'm not gonna spend any more effort on this and your wild unsupported claims.

[FinlandGirl]

They do; the Constitution doesn't make exceptions for dual nationals: https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/ ... #a731-1999

The Finnish Conscription Act does already acknowledge that dual citizens might also have obligations in the militaries of other countries and does make an exception to avoid double peacetime conscription.

Once again: it is the duty of all Finnish citizens to defend their country in the time of war as written in the Constitution. How is the exception for peacetime conscription relevant to this? Even so, that exemption is not due to the "obligations in the militaries of other countries" - if you haven't completed service you won't be exempt despite being obligated to defend another country in a war.

Conscription is an obligation to serve in the military for a duration of a few months or years.

You seem to be too stupid for even understanding the simple fact that conflicting obligations and conflicting loyalties are a problem when people have citizenships of two countries that are at war with each other.

Finland does acknowledge that some Finnish citizens have other citizenships and does acknowledge their obligations (like conscription) to other countries.
For peacetime Finnish law already has that covered.
The discussion how to handle dual citizens in wartime has only started, including the question whether dual citizenship should perhaps be restricted to some (NATO?) countries.

[fiksumuksu69]

I got some decision just now, but I can't see it due to the service breaks in Enter Finland https://migri.fi/en/service-breaks-in-enter-finland

According to Migri it is either positive citizenship decision or
expiry decision if you yourself have cancelled your application, i.e. you can start celebrating already

I did indeed start celebrating, thanks! Simply went to Suomi.fi and checked my citizenship status there to discover that I have become a citizen!

So, for the forum stats:

Applied on January 13th 2023.
Application moved to stage 2 on the morning of June 26th, and in about 3 hours I got the decision.
Queue number was 4208 when it went into processing. Only a bit over 5 months of waiting in total!

Good luck everyone with your applications!

[Schmania]

This is such a lovely feature Click on the username --> "Add foe" --> filter out the garbage from your feed

Thank you, my man!
A legendary tip!

[fingol]

I am paying back taxes and Kela (study support) based on agreed payment plan. I am ahead of payment plan. Does it have negative impact on decision-making?

[Auringon_kukka]

I got some decision just now, but I can't see it due to the service breaks in Enter Finland https://migri.fi/en/service-breaks-in-enter-finland

According to Migri it is either positive citizenship decision or
expiry decision if you yourself have cancelled your application, i.e. you can start celebrating already

I did indeed start celebrating, thanks! Simply went to Suomi.fi and checked my citizenship status there to discover that I have become a citizen!

So, for the forum stats:

Applied on January 13th 2023.
Application moved to stage 2 on the morning of June 26th, and in about 3 hours I got the decision.
Queue number was 4208 when it went into processing. Only a bit over 5 months of waiting in total!

Good luck everyone with your applications!

WOW, congratulations!!!!!

Can hardly wait to have that same feeling, too . Applied August 2022, queue 34xx, still stage 1...

[Auringon_kukka]

This is such a lovely feature Click on the username --> "Add foe" --> filter out the garbage from your feed

Thank you, my man!
A legendary tip!

Great tip, indeed! Too much arguing going on here, e.g., see some of the posts on the past couple of pages

[Auringon_kukka]

Citizenship application still stage 1, applied in August 2022.

Had to apply for an extended residence permit, as my current one is expiring in three months. Applied online yesterday, no visit to migri required. Application processed in a mere 15 minutes this morning with positive decision.

Can hardly wait to have that feeling on my citizenship application!

[kalaizanala]

My professional occupation and skills are really demanded in Finland, but I was able to be officially employed in about 5 months after my graduation. All because the fact that I graduated in May and when I started to look for a job most of companies had summer holidays. But starting from September I had six job interview invitations. Three months is really nothing for finding a job in Finland. I would say that even 6 months is not enough.

This sounds as if you didn't start looking for a job in May, which is your fault.
June and July can be problematic, most people are back at the office in August.

If your employer announces YT negotiations tomorrow, you will have at least 4 months until you would reach 3 months of unemployment.

Good point but I will keep my opinion the same - 3 months of job search is not enough in Finland.
It sounds a bit aggressive from your side, I just share my experience and opinion. I started to look for a job right away, but summer (including May in my case) was a silent season. And most of the companies already took summer workers, so I assume all the junior level positions were full until September.

[Auringon_kukka]

I am paying back taxes and Kela (study support) based on agreed payment plan. I am ahead of payment plan. Does it have negative impact on decision-making?

I would assume (my opinion only) that if you are meeting your payment obligations, there shouldn't be any negative impact.