Jotakin and Jotain

[03005061]

Ok, it's been a while since my latest forray into Kielikoulu, with my Mitä vs Mikä question that seemed to blow a few fuses.

Here is my latest dilemma, I have recently become aware of JOTAKIN being used here and there, and looking up the translation, I find it means 'something'. As far as I am aware, something is JOTAIN.

So what is the difference between the two somethings and when do you you use one or the other?

There is only one letter difference (JOTAKIN -K = JOTAIN) is there a relation and secondly, is there a meaning for JOTA (why add the KIN, which I though was a suffix meaning also or too) and is there a JOTAKINKIN??

Thank you in advance

03005061

[Juha H.]

I don't think there's any difference at all. I prefer JOTAIN.

[pemmes]

So what is the difference between the two somethings and when do you you use one or the other?

I am not an expert in grammar, but I think that "jotakin" is used if the something is a non-abstract thing. "Jotain" is used for abstract somethings. In most contexes I bet they are equivalent, the difference in rather in pronunciation than in meaning.

There is only one letter difference (JOTAKIN -K = JOTAIN) is there a relation and secondly, is there a meaning for JOTA (why add the KIN, which I though was a suffix meaning also or too) and is there a JOTAKINKIN??

Some people pronounce the Greek letter i as "jota" but as far as I know it doesn't have meaning in Finnish.

[Hank W.]

Sitä, jota lyöt, pitää sinun lyömän lujaa.

Its used as 'mitä', but of a person I think.

[kalmisto]

>> Here is my latest dilemma, I have recently become aware of JOTAKIN being used here and there, and looking up the translation, I find it means 'something'. As far as I am aware, something is JOTAIN.

So what is the difference between the two somethings and when do you you use one or the other?

There is only one letter difference (JOTAKIN -K = JOTAIN) is there a relation and secondly, is there a meaning for JOTA (why add the KIN, which I though was a suffix meaning also or too) and is there a JOTAKINKIN?? <<


I use "jotain" instead of "jotakin" because "jotain" sounds slighly less formal ( and thus more natural ) to me.

The "jota" in "jotakin" does not mean anything and the "kin" in "jotakin" is not a suffix, it just looks like one.

There are two variants also for the Finnish word for "somewhere" and they are "jossakin" and "jossain".

The word "jota" does have a meaning in Finnish but this "jota" is not a part of "jotakin" :

Nainen, jota rakastan = The woman whom I love.

( Nainen, joka rakastaa minua = The woman who loves me. )

There is no "JOTAKINKIN" !

[kalmisto]

03005061

The word "jotakin" is like the word "kuitenkin" ( however ) in which "kuiten" does not mean anything and "kin" is not an ending. ( Some Finnish words just end in "-kin". )

[kalmisto]

03005061

One more Finnish word that ends in "-kin" : kutakuinkin ( approximately )

There are very few of these words.

[Hank W.]

but how do you explain kuitenkaan?

[kalmisto]

but how do you explain kuitenkaan?

I am not sure that I understand your question. When I wrote that the "kuiten"-part in "kuitenkin" does not mean anything I meant that we do not use that word when we speak or write and you can not find "kuiten" in a dictionary. I do not deny that there is a connection between the words "kuiten" and "kuinka" ( how ). "Kuiten" alone does not mean anyrthing in modern Finnish. It is of course possible that it has had a meaning in the past.

[kalmisto]

03005061

The "-less" in the English word "bless" is not an ending ( as it is in "pennyless" ) and the "-kin" in "jotakin" is not an ending ( as it is in "minäkin" )

minäkin = me also

[AnaBanana]

According to my finnish teacher, jotain comes from jotakin, originally as spoken language, but nowadays quite acceptable on written language as well.

It's very commom that a word that goes from written to spoken language "loses" some letters.

Like katso (look) and kato.

[Armine]

about jotakin:


I guess, jotakin is the partitive form of jokin which means 'something'.

[Pecchio]

[quote="03005061"]Ok, it's been a while since my latest forray into Kielikoulu, with my Mitä vs Mikä question that seemed to blow a few fuses.

Here is my latest dilemma, I have recently become aware of JOTAKIN being used here and there, and looking up the translation, I find it means 'something'. As far as I am aware, something is JOTAIN.

So what is the difference between the two somethings and when do you you use one or the other?


....
Mr. Numbers, and the fuses blown. With equal understanding of language... do not shy away, I'm game.

There's it, the rub. A rub. A question in space irrational. I have no use of none of neither.

Sorry,

Postmasters are neither bound to give change nor authorised to demand it.

Inasmuch poets, we , I, cannot say anything more.

[Talihintti]

but how do you explain kuitenkaan?

I checked the dicionary:

Kuitenkin (opposite of "kuitenkaan"):

kuitenkin (d;sittenkin, kaikesta huolimatta): however, nevertheless, anyway, anyhow, regardless, in spite of the fact, despite the fact, yet.

I don't know what "Ei hän kuitenkaan tule" is in English, that would help alot. Some other Finns could help me. I'm only 14 years old so I can't really do it too well. I just can speak english because we had an exchange-student from the States.

[jrdioko]

How about "He didn't come, however."