Feedback on the EC permit (in Finnish)

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network_engineer
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Feedback on the EC permit (in Finnish)

Post by network_engineer » Wed May 10, 2006 10:26 am

Hi all,

Copied under is the email reply that I received from the Ministry of the Interior on the Long-Term EC Resident Permit. A very rough translation is given at the end. Daryl or somebody could correct the translation more accurately.

"
Kansallinen pysyvä oleskelulupa ja pitkään maassa olesekelleiden EY-oleskelulupa ei voi olla samaan aikaan voimassa. Kun passissa on kansallinen oleskelulupatarra ja sen jälkeen hakee EY-lupa, kansallinen lupa mitätöidään ja sen tilalle tulee EY-lupa. Tämä on tarkoitus kirjata ulkomaalaislakiin, joka muutetaan tämän direktiivin takia.

Pitkään maassa oleskelleiden direktiivin hallituksen esitys on tarkoitus antaa Eduskunnalle vielä kesäkuussa ja silloin lakimuutos tulisi mahdollisesti ja toivottavasti voimaan tämän vuoden aikana. Riippuu tietenkin eduskunnan käsittelystä. Direktiivi oli pitänyt implementoida osaksi kansallista lainsäädäntöä jo 23.1.2006 mennessä, mutta emme ole pystynyt sitä tekemään ajoissa.

Suomessa voi kuitenkin saada kansallisen pysyvän oleskeluluvan neljän vuoden yhtäjaksoisen oleskelun jälkeen. Tämä direktiivi antaa saman oikeuden vasta viiden vuoden päästä. Tämä EY-oleskelupa antaa oikeuden liikkua EU:n alueella, mutta kuitenkin rajoitettuna siten, että kaikkien EU valtioiden kansalliset maahantulosäännökset ovat edelleen voimassa (kuten myös mahd. viisumivelvollisuus ym) Joten komission alkuperäinen "ajatus" kolmansien valtioden (siis ei EU-kansalaisten) kansalaisten vapaasta liikkuvuudesta EU-kansalaisten tapaan ei oikein toteutunut, eikä valitettavasti voida puhua harmonisoinnista.
"

Basically, it says that the Finnish PR and the EC Long-Term resident permit cannot be in effect at the same time and that the Finnish PR would be cancelled. I assume that they are talking about the permit sticker itself

Changes would be made to the current Alien's Act because of this Directive. There would be a proposal that would be made to the Finnish Parliament in June and hopefully ratifed by the Parliament this year and that it depends on the Parliament.

Also says that the Directive should be implemented already by 23.1.2006 as part of national legislation but that they have not been able to do it in time.

Also mentions that the Finnish Permanent Residence Permit (pysyvä oleskelulup) can be granted after a continuous four year stay however that this directive gives this right only after five years.

An interesting view (i.e. the way I read it) also mentioned in the reply is that while this gives a possibility for a non-EU citizen to move to a second member state, there are still other obligations that the "alien" has to fulfill, such as obtaining a visa. In other words, a third country national with this EC Permit issued in Finland would still need a visitor's visa, e.g. to Estonia, however, once there, he can reside there beyond three months. And the reply goes on to state that in that sense, this permit too does not give the intended right of free movement with regard to third country nationals, as an EU citizen would have.

Like another member put in ... obtaining a visitor's visa (where needed), travelling to a second member state and then demanding a residence permit, would it then violate the assumption on which the visitor's visa was granted? Would the alien be then treated as an illegal imimgrant? Very interesting to know!!! :lol:


Cheers.



Feedback on the EC permit (in Finnish)

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Hank W.
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Post by Hank W. » Wed May 10, 2006 12:19 pm

It says "the national permit will be voided"... I read it as the permit itself. The sticker is just a manifestation of the permit.
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.

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network_engineer
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Post by network_engineer » Wed May 10, 2006 4:38 pm

Hi Hank,

Well, yes, oleskelulupa = residence permit. Would it have been fair to give it another name... say... oleskelulupatodistus :lol: . Not sure if it would have amused the authorities! :lol:

Cheers.

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daryl
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Post by daryl » Wed May 10, 2006 5:35 pm

Hank W. wrote:It says "the national permit will be voided"... I read it as the permit itself. The sticker is just a manifestation of the permit.
This overlooks the point that there will not necessarily be any sticker in the immigrant's travel document. I think the point is precisely that the sticker (the certificate, if you like) will be overprinted ("mitätön") if there is one, and that a new sticker of Brussels design will be placed in the travel document.

If, instead of stickers or certificates, we speak of the permission granted, i.e. of the rights of the immigrant concerned, then the EC arrangements are a specific extension of that permission and those rights. An immigrant with long-term EC resident status recognised in Finland is entitled to remain in Finland indefinitely (which is the basic right conferred by the present permanent residence permit) AND to establish residence in other contracting Member States under the conditions specified in the Directive. Long-term EC resident status also confers (IMO, based on a cursory reading of the Directive) reinforced protection against expulsion.

As the EC permit continues and enlarges the residence rights of the holder of a permanent residence permit, it makes no sense to say that the permanent residence permit (i.e. the permission or rights enjoyed by the holder) has been cancelled. To use a simple analogy, if your driving licence allowing you to drive a motor cycle only is replaced with a licence allowing you to drive a motor cycle, a car and a heavy goods vehicle, can we say that your original motorbike licence was cancelled?

Confusing certificates with what they stand for is a chronic disease suffered by many Finnish officials, probably because the same word "lupa" is used to mean both the certificate and the permission.

daryl
Wo ai Zhong-guo ren


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