Opportunity/threat to once live in Finland?

[phhm]

Hello all

I'm a Finnish woman living abroad. I have a foreign boyfriend living yet elsewhere abroad.

This is a long post and in case you don't want to read all, here is the bottom line:

I would like foreign men living in Finland to describe why they don't regret having moved to Finland (especially the capital region), why the dark winter is not so bad and why the scenery is not dull.

Explanation:

I've agreed to move where he lives now because he is very attached to the place, his job, his team etc. (He does not particularly want to stay there all his life.) However, before I change my life and move countries, I need to know he is open to the idea of living one day in Finland if it continues to be important to me. I can follow him first - but I can't close the door to Finland forever.

He feels he can't promise me the door to Finland stays open. He doesn't say it's impossible but he is not particularly attracted to Finland (after one summer vacation and a long weekend). He finds the scenery is monotonous and he is afraid of the dark season. He has this gut feeling that he does not really want to live there, and he can't do it against his guts. He needs sunlight.

So we have a problem.

I've been telling him that he should see it as an opportunity, not a threat, to live one day in Finland, that there are lots of objectively good things about the place. It is not Siberia! It is a welfare state that rates top 10 in many statistics that have to do with quality of life, competitivity, R&D etc. And it has the reputation of being beautiful.

I've been telling him that as long as the surrounding environment is not particularly hostile and the standard of living is decent, you can be happy where you decide to be happy, that it mostly depends on the cosy little nest you build for yourself and of your everyday life and with whom you share it.

I've been telling him a country and a culture are such many-sided, versatile things that you can always find plenty to like and make you happy, unless you decide to focus on the things you don't like. (I could decide to focus on everything I don't like about the particular European country where he lives and its citizens).

I've been telling him that in order to change, you don't need to be particularly attracted to something, you just need a good reason. Making your loved one happy, especially when she has once made you happy by joining you where you were, is a very good reason.

I've been telling him I've never suffered from the dark in Finland because it is not enough to make you depressed. I enjoy the dark period: I cuddle up at home with a good book, light a candle, put on good music and open a bottle of red wine. Or I open the bottle of red wine for a good indoor chat with a friend. And it is all the better if it rains or snows outside. Or I go to the movies.

I've been telling him that once there is snow on the ground, it doesn't even seem so dark and that snow and ice make the world magic around you. Not quite the British Isles/Benelux greyness and humidity! It is a pleasure to dress warmly and go for a brisk walk on the squeaking snow, even if it is dark.

I've also been telling him the mountains he is surrounded by now can also be seen as monotonous: rock, rock and more rock. In Finland you have small and big lakes, conifer forests, broad-leaved trees, the sea with islands of different sizes and shapes. The exact same scenary is different in the summer, in the autumn and in the winter.

And despite the fact that Finland is so wonderful, I just can't understand such an attitude: I would be able to see somehing good and interesting in just about anywhere. I would be able to follow him even to Congo, for that matter. The only thing I can't do is give up living in Finland for forever.

So: I would like foreign men living in Finland to describe why they don't regret having moved to Finland (especially the capital region), why the dark winter is not so bad and why the scenery is not dull.

[superiorinferior]

So: I would like foreign men living in Finland to describe why they don't regret having moved to Finland (especially the capital region), why the dark winter is not so bad and why the scenery is not dull.

Hey lady,

You're going about this all wrong.

For every schmuck who will come to this thread and write how they "love the dark, rustic silence of the lammas," you will find another who says "I'm so glad I got out of there when I did."

You cannot change a his, as you put it, "gut feeling" about something so basic as where in the world he wants to live. And if you do "convince him" to try it, even though all of his danger signals are flaring, and if you get him to move to an apartment in Helsinki.... Do not be surprised if one dark, rainy November afternoon that he packs his bags and leaves, because he told you he wasn't up for it -- and you told him it would be good, and it just isn't (for whatever reason).

There will be nothing but resentment and that will be the end of that.

Now, if you still want to try to "convert" him, I would do so through his own experiences on vacations and visits to Finland in the future... So that his conclusions about this place are his own, not some anonymous "men" on some internet bulletin board.

Because when you are trying to sell something, you don't start the conversation with "it isn't that baaad!!"

This sounds negative, and for the most part it is. I think if I had it to do over again, I might not be living precisely here. But here I am for one reason or another... At least until the kids are grown etc.

But what isn't negative is the fact that he is honest enough to tell you what his "gut feeling" is. At least he isn't playing games.

It sounds like this is more on your shoulders than his. You don't have to follow him around where he wants to live, and I guess, neither does he.

[kay30]

I'm not a Finnish man, but trying to get someone to do something they don't want to, is a slippery slope at best. You can try all you want, but if someone does not value the same things as you, you cannot make them.

If you both don't prioritize the relationship above other variable factors (e.g. him moving to Finland if that is what it takes, or you not living in Finland if that is what it takes) then things will be very difficult. But if you are both willing to comprimise, things probably will be OK.

At least he is being honest with you. But it sounds like it is not quite what you want to hear.

Not to say people don't change. Many do. But you have to be prepared that he will not ever change his mind. If you value your relationship with him more than living in Finland, then your choice is easy.

[sinikala]

Sage advice from SI.

It would all depend if he could have a job from day 1, that would make life much easier.

You are on a hiding to nothing if you try to refute the idea that the landscape isn't dull and convince him that Helsinki Winters rock.

I agree that at least up to Kuopio, the geography of inner Finland is monotonous, flat and repetetive, I miss having a 3d landscape, I miss not seeing the colour green for 10 months of the year.

The lack of sunlight in Winter is bad for those of us born and raised further South, and does lead to depression in some. For me it merely screws my bodyclock, I don't feel depressed in the winter just tired. Then in the Summer I can never sleep as it's daylight outside and the ba***rd birds are singing at 02:30.

Helsinki is great in the Summer and tolerable in the Winter if you like cultural things... galleries, exhibitions, concerts, the ballet etc. Pori on the other hand is nice in the summer and an utter sh**hole in the winter, I have to go to Hki to get a fix of the outside world... I'm getting one tomorrow

I've been telling him I've never suffered from the dark in Finland because it is not enough to make you depressed. I enjoy the dark period: I cuddle up at home with a good book, light a candle, put on good music and open a bottle of red wine. Or I open the bottle of red wine for a good indoor chat with a friend. And it is all the better if it rains or snows outside. Or I go to the movies.

You were born here, you're used to it.

Chat with a friend? Likelyhood is when he moves here he won't have many friends. I've been here many years I wouldn't say I have any good friends here, I know plenty of people, but that's different.

Finnish houses and apartments tend to be pretty small in Hki, not many people have gardens to work on, curling up - a (euphamism for being cooped up) in a small flat for 7 months is not many people's idea of fun.

If he likes Finland after a few visits, then there is hope, if he doesn't like it then no matter how much you blow Finland's trumpet it isn't going to make him like it here, so you need to get used to visiting on holiday or '86 the guy for a Finn.

[LAS_VEGAS]

Some reasons from top of my head:
1) You can do winter sports a lot and cheap! I learned snowboarding in Finland!
2) You can walk home safely after a long night in a bar.
3) Sauna!
4) I think white trees and lakes look so beatiful in winter time! You can rent a winter cottage!
5) You have a good chance of getting your wallet back if you loose it(happened 3 times to my friends!)...

[mrjimsfc]

SI has the best advice I have EVER seen for foriegners moving to Finland. Some people love it and others truly do see Finland as Siberia. Read the advice from SI again and memorize it if neccessary, then recognise the fact that if you choose to follow THIS man he will never lead you back to Finland.

[phhm]

Thanks for help everybody. (That was sarcastic.)

Of course I've been telling him about good things but I don't want to talk too much about Finland either. I thought I showed him a lot of good things over the summer.

It is not so idiotic to talk directly about the things he says he doesn't like to show that it isn't necessarily true.

The problem is that his gut feeling is ridiculous. Gut feelings depend on circumstances. They change. You can decide to change them. It's all about attitude.

I do value the relationship enough to move because of him but if he doesn't value our relationship enough to give a few years of his life to Finland "in return" (and if he doesn't show enough open-mindedness and capacity to adapt), guess what, I'm returning to Finland in January 2007.

I was hoping people with experience could rather have helped me change his attitude rather than push me to this decision.

I gave years to my previous boyfriend until I just left by myself. He loved Finland but not to live, as he put it. I'm am convinced it was more a problem of following a woman, of anxiety in front of a choice that is not his to begin with.

I bet both of them would see things quite differently if they were offered a job and would be able to drag their French or whatever girlfriends with them.

[superiorinferior]

The problem is that his gut feeling is ridiculous.

With this attitude, how can this relationship fail?

[phhm]

You never get frustrated and angry?

[superiorinferior]

You never get frustrated and angry?

Almost every day.

Remember where I live?

[mrjimsfc]

You never get frustrated and angry?

Yes! So will he! My guess is that you will be in Finland January of 2007.

[phhm]

Superiorinferior should probably move back where ever he came from. But at least he gave Finland a try!

[phhm]

To sinikala I should reply that it has never been a question of coming to Finland without a job from day 1. Or course he would look for a job first and I would wait the time necessarily for him to find one. In his field, it should be quite possibly to work in English.

He can make friends in Finland as much as I can make friends where he lives. He would have my friends and family (who speak English, some of them even French), to begin with.

[superiorinferior]

Superiorinferior should probably move back where ever he came from. But at least he gave Finland a try!

You seem very eager to tell people where they should live.

[phhm]

SI, that was one of the messages that do not merit an answer. Of course there is no reason you leave Finland if you have good reasons to stay there, and if they outweigh the feelings of anger and frustration.

I still think it's just a question of attitude and that attitudes change and can be changed. THAT is why ALL such gut feelings are ridiculous when they make you give up something valuable.

I have already stayed a year and a half in France and I don't particularly like it. (I downright hated working in a French company.) I've never been able to make real friends with the French even though I speak the language perfectly. But I still don't think it is doomed to remain so or that I couldn't be happy there.

Just not for the rest of my life or only according to where he feels like living and when, damn it.