Help--Victim of Directorate of Immigration Incompetence.

Pilvii · Post by **Pilvii** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:55 am

Seems that Finland is encouraging skilled immigrants - however, makes it almost impossible for us!

I applied for a work/holiday visa (9 from 12 months could be spent working, 3 months with each employer) - but emailed the Directorate of
Immigration about changing to a work visa if I got a permanent job (before I applied for anything!!). They advised me that I could apply for this change at the local police station, based on permanent work. So... before the end of my third month, I filled in another residence permit and a 'change to work' form (tai jotain) that the lady at the police station gave me.

Well... got a statement from my school, saying that I had a contract with
them: that I was a permanent teacher with no 'fixed' end-date. Thought that was all good.. until I went back to the police station in Tampere.... The women snarled at me 'Why did you fill in those forms?!?!' and then proceeded to rant on and on about 'only 17 hours... only 17 hours' (my number of hours at work) and mumbled something about processing the form.

The next week (5 days after I was told I would be contacted immediately) - my Principal got a message (not me, mind you!) saying that I needed to go back and collect my €100 - that there was 'no charge'. Immediately I was worried.. nothing is free in Finland, not even going to a public toilet!!

I go back on Friday and they say 'yes.. its free - you just change the workplace'. I told them that it was a permanent job and thats why I applied for the work visa. She said I never told her that (mind you, all the forms say that!! She even ticked the box on my application that I was applying for residence based on work). I asked her if I could still work - seeing as they hadnt even started to process my application and my three month period was well and truely up. She said she would let me know... but it was a good sign, because it was a permanent job.

Yesterday afternoon, I got a phonecall from the police - the local Tampere employment office told them that I had to stop work immediately at my school and change the workplace, or holiday. I told them that it was a permanent job and if I couldnt work - the whole reason for the work visa wouldnt be valid. She basically told me that I was stupid to apply for a work/holiday visa - that it didnt match my 'type of work'. I told her that no right-minded school is going to employ a teacher (permanently, mind you!!) without seeing them, meeting them etc - she said 'oh well'. She then told me that it would take 5-6 months to process and would have to go to the Directorate of Immigration. I told her that I had taken at least an 8,5 month contract because I was given the information that I could change to a work visa with little hassle. I was told that 'they gave you the wrong information'.

Then, I had to call my Principal and my boyfriend had to explain the situation... to my Head of Department (languages) to say that their native speaker was suddenly unable to work! Needless to say, no one was impressed... least of all ME!

So.. thats my rant

Is it just me or.....?

**Sponsor:**

sinikettu · Post by **sinikettu** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:11 am

Pilvii it seems as though you are the victim of some not un-typical Ministry of Interior incompetence.
You need the advice and help of an Expert..
There is one such person who uses this bb.
His name is Daryl.
But he may not spot your post in this forum which deal with education, that is also with a thread tittle that has not any clue that you have a Visa /Directorate of Immigration problem.
Can I suggest that you re-post this problem in the (Moving to Finland Forum) with a thread tittle of something like.."Help--Victim of Directorate of Immigration Incompetence."

"Dirty foreigner... needs advice!" is an indication that you are angry but also a bit miss-leading...why are you Dirty??
Did someone at the DOI say or imply that?

Pilvii · Post by **Pilvii** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:35 am

No... not dirty

But, in a sense, its easy for some of us to feel that way. I especially like the 'dirty foreigner' fee some of us have to pay for having a mobile phone connected. Will repost... thanks for the advice.

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:55 am

Or just PM daryl (that might flag up in his email) asking him if he would mind reading your post and giving any pertinent comments.

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:22 pm

The system, designed by some ass, does not understand someone coming, staying and applying... it is not in the book. You have to "go by the rules" if you try to have some initiative or imagination everybody gets angry and totally confused. Applies to anything, student handouts, KELA whatever. Finnish bureaucracy at its best.

You are on a "exchange visitor visa". This is a reciprocal agreement with the antipodes and has certain rules. As it says on the package: "12 months, 9 of which your work, after 3 months obligatory change". Nothing unclear of that.

Then applying for a non-EU workers residence permit in Finland. Has nothing got to do with what kind of visa/waiver you are travelling on. Rules say: may not work while processing. Nothing unclear about that either.

Now if you have the email from the UVI, you might have some case as you have it in writing, as you are *changing* your type of permit... (now does that sexchange visitor visa have some small print in it that it is excluded?) Problem is with the 3 cooks (Police, MOL,UVI) not having a clear idea of if they're making soup, sauce or a soufflet... Daryl probably has some insight into that.

So two unclears making total darkness, nothing new. And then people say Finland has easy bureaucracy

Pilvii · Post by **Pilvii** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:45 pm

Yep, have it in writing. I was clearly told that I could 'change' the visa at the Police station. The Police say its their first one in history (... working/holiday visa) and that UVI must deal with it. UVI are positive the Police are responsible for it..... I just wish *someone* knew who should be in charge!

I in no way doubt the 3 month, 3 month, 3 month rule - its what I was told that has been incorrect. I am not doubting that I have to change... if I hadn't applied for the other visa. Also, during my first (wasted) visit to the Police station - I was told I could continue to work until the visa had been processed. Is it any wonder I saw someone throw their passport on the floor and stomp away from the 'Foreigners' office at the Tampere Police station when they obviously shouldn't be allowed to give information (mind you, who should be allowed in this place!!) as they don't seem to know what is going on. Talk about one hand not communicating with the other.....

My Principal called the employment office today and they seem to be able to sort it out - so far... (I wont hold my breath though).
Apparently their big problem is they need to see my degrees - as if that would make a difference!

The UVI made no mention of the 'not working while bring processed' in my email - nice to see that they have now made it too late for me to do anything with it.

sinikettu · Post by **sinikettu** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:54 pm

Have you sent a PM to Daryl?

He will get an auto e-mail telling him that you are needing advice.
bb/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=4742

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:16 pm

Pilvii wrote:The Police say its their first one in history (... working/holiday visa) and that UVI must deal with it.

Yes, well, see now that is your problem. You don't fit into any kind of predetermined "easy box". (The exchange visitor thing is only... what, a year old or so). You're the "prototype" so to speak.

Apparently their big problem is they need to see my degrees - as if that would make a difference!

Well, it does, as you're trying to get residence permit as a teacher. You have to convince them theres nobody in the EU to do your job.

The UVI made no mention of the 'not working while bring processed' in my email - nice to see that they have now made it too late for me to do anything with it.

Ah see now the thing is while the "initial" application is processed. You are "changing"... thata a different thing again...

Pilvii · Post by **Pilvii** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:40 pm

Ah... I just love being the prototype.
I dont feel bad - foreigners and Finns are all gobsmacked by the whole deal - I feel better! I have friends at Parliament on it (haha), my boss, important people (just ask them!!) - something good has got to come from all of this. Even if it is going home.... ok, maybe not!
Yes, have PM'd Daryl... poor guy must think I feel like the world is falling.
Thanks to everyone for their help!

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:44 pm

The email from the UVI is a pretty good one to have. They can't take back stuff in writing.(even if it says its unoficcial nonbinding bladeblah) Now you see when we say "its good to ask". Its good to ask a lot of places, and see if they conflict in opinion. Bureaucracy in Finland requires some "hunch" how it operates. Theres always a yes-but-no... and godforbid being a "prototype" (except Daryl loves those)

The person slamming their passport to the floor probably heard only what they wanted to believe... the problem is the triumvirate... it *seems* all clear, but the bureucracy is a few steps behind always...

I wonder did that one bloke ever get an answer to his doctor's certificate question?

Pilvii · Post by **Pilvii** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:03 pm

I am lucky I managed to backup all emails and even think to bring my hard-drives with me... otherwise, it would be hopeless!

The guy who threw his passport down.... I have seen him there a few times - to be honest he maybe didnt deal with it the best way, but its easy to watch someone else get frustrated and say *tsk tsk* at their behaviour. We might be even worse in their situation! The women at the 'foreigners' counter arent the nicest I have encountered... down-right rude could be a description.

Anyhow.. here's hoping

gistroud · Post by **gistroud** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:08 pm

I have learned one good lesson here in Finland and that is to never ask any questions/advice from the tampere police department. I am not saying that their job is easy in any way. If you have any questions, got to the UVI or the embassy in your home country.

Pilvii · Post by **Pilvii** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:03 pm

I wish!
Thats my problem - I contacted the Finnish Embassy in Australia before I left.. they directed me to UVI. I contacted UVI, they directed me to the Tampere police. No way I could avoid it... the visa application had to be applied for in Tampere. Catch-22

gistroud · Post by **gistroud** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:45 pm

Well, I have been down that road before.

That is the way it is whenever you try to get information about inportant matters like that here. I thought that even though the police department handles the paperwork, that the decisions are made by the UVI. At least that is the way they (people at the police department), explained it to me.

I had my student residence permit changed to a work permit and it only took 1 month. It helped that the employer wrote something stating that they needed me right away. While I was waiting for my work permit to be processed, I was allowed keep working at my part time job. However, after my contract was finished with the IT company, I had to change my residence permit back to students residence permit. Again it only took around 1 month but I was not allowed to return to my old part time job until the student residence permit was processed.

Pilvii · Post by **Pilvii** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:50 pm

My employer has spoken to the Employment Office and produced written statements about my role at the school etc. Have to see how that one goes.
The police took my application form - as required - but have now screwed it up twice. They didnt pass it on to UVI the first time, and the second time; sent it to the Employment Office.
Good to see that these people have some training and therefore know whats going on....