i apologize in advance since i think that this is going to be a major vent. but i'm not writing this only to went, i also would like to hear some opinions on this situation.
so, i am breastfeeding my one month old son, in the beginning i had some problems with low supply, but now i believe that i have over come those problems. but my neuvola lady thinks i haven't and last time she told me to keep giving my son formula to supplement, which i had stopped and have not yet started again because i think that it will only create problems for breastfeeding since my son already sometimes goes on strike about breastfeeding because he has gotten used to the bottle... these past few weeks my son's weight gain has been about 200g per week, i know that it's not very much, but for what i've read it should be considered normal, my neuvola lady thinks that it is definately not enough. my son seems happy and healthy and content and is having plenty of wet and dirty nappies during the days and all that, so i don't really think that he needs the formula...
so, what i want to ask is, should i give my son the formula like the neuvola lady told me to? or should i risk looking like a bad mother in the eyes of this neuvola lady and do what i feel is right? do you think that i'm doing a great damage to my son's growth by not giving him the formula? do you think that 200g a week is too small weight gain for one month olds?
i'm sorry for this vent and the questions, but i'm only a slightly insecure first time mum, that doesn't think that neuvola is always right, but doesn't know what is right herself...
sara
should i trust the neuvola or myself?
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mrshourula
- Posts: 344
- Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:21 am
- Location: United States
It has been a while since I my children were babies but I do recall that it took a good 2-3 months to get a good breast feeding schedule going.
I was able to get lots of information and support from my local La Leche League. There doesn't seem to be a La Leche League in Finland but perhaps if you read the information on their Web page you will find information to help you with your situation.
I'm not sure what a "nuevola" lady is but if your child is thriving without the formula then I would not give a bottle so early. You and your baby are both learning how to do this and you need to give each time. Be sure you are drinking water while you nurse and getting sleep (if possible, sleep when your baby sleeps). And most of all, trust your instincts. Of all the people in the world you know your baby best.
http://www.lalecheleague.org/FAQ/enough.html
This is from their page "How can I tell if my baby is getting enough milk?"
How can I tell if my baby is getting enough milk?
This may be the most asked question for La Leche League Leaders. It is understandable, since breasts are neither see-through nor marked off in ounces. Thank goodness there are other signs that indicate baby is getting enough milk.
Typically during the first few days, while the baby is receiving mother's thick, immunity-boosting colostrum, he will wet only one or two diapers per day.
Once mother's milk comes in, usually on the third or fourth day, the baby should begin to have 6-8 wet cloth diapers (5-6 wet disposable diapers) per day. (An easy way to feel the weight of a wet disposable diaper is to pour 2-4 tablespoons of water in a dry diaper.)
In addition, most young babies will have at least two to five bowel movements every 24 hours for the first several months, although some babies will switch to less frequent but large bowel movements at about 6 weeks.
A baby that is sleeping rather than feeding every 2-3 hours or is generally lethargic may need to be assessed by a health care provider to make sure that he is adequately hydrated.
These are additional important signs that indicate your baby is receiving enough milk:
The baby nurses frequently averaging at least 8-12 feedings per 24-hour period.
The baby is allowed to determine the length of the feeding, which may be 10 to 20 minutes per breast or longer.
Baby's swallowing sounds are audible as he is breastfeeding.
The baby should gain at least 4-7 ounces per week after the fourth day of life.
The baby will be alert and active, appear healthy, have good color, firm skin, and will be growing in length and head circumference.
The physical act of breastfeeding is more than the quantity of milk that is supplied, as you will find once you hold your baby in your arms. Breastfeeding is warmth, nutrition, and mother's love all rolled into one. Understanding and appreciating the signs of knowing when your baby is getting enough to eat is the one of the most important things a new mother can learn. If you have any concerns regarding your baby, they should be addressed with your health care practitioner.
If you do need to increase your milk supply after keeping track of wet diapers, bowel movements and weight gain, there are several options you can try to increase your milk supply. See our FAQ on "Increasing Your Milk Supply" and refer to our Web resource page on milk supply issues or further information. Keep in touch with your health care provider if your baby is not gaining well or is losing weight. In most cases, improved breastfeeding techniques will quickly resolve the situation, but occasionally, weight gain may indicate a health problem.
La Leche League's THE WOMANLY ART OF BREASTFEEDING is the most complete resource available for the breastfeeding mother and can be ordered from the LLLI Online Store or through your local Leader. The online catalogue may also have other products, such as information sheets on topics like "How to Know Your Healthy Full-Term Breastfed Baby is Getting Enough Milk" and "Increasing Your Milk." These may also be available from your local Leader. You can find a LLL Leader and Group by going to our Web page on finding a local Leader.
Last updated 10/29/06 by jlm.
I was able to get lots of information and support from my local La Leche League. There doesn't seem to be a La Leche League in Finland but perhaps if you read the information on their Web page you will find information to help you with your situation.
I'm not sure what a "nuevola" lady is but if your child is thriving without the formula then I would not give a bottle so early. You and your baby are both learning how to do this and you need to give each time. Be sure you are drinking water while you nurse and getting sleep (if possible, sleep when your baby sleeps). And most of all, trust your instincts. Of all the people in the world you know your baby best.
http://www.lalecheleague.org/FAQ/enough.html
This is from their page "How can I tell if my baby is getting enough milk?"
How can I tell if my baby is getting enough milk?
This may be the most asked question for La Leche League Leaders. It is understandable, since breasts are neither see-through nor marked off in ounces. Thank goodness there are other signs that indicate baby is getting enough milk.
Typically during the first few days, while the baby is receiving mother's thick, immunity-boosting colostrum, he will wet only one or two diapers per day.
Once mother's milk comes in, usually on the third or fourth day, the baby should begin to have 6-8 wet cloth diapers (5-6 wet disposable diapers) per day. (An easy way to feel the weight of a wet disposable diaper is to pour 2-4 tablespoons of water in a dry diaper.)
In addition, most young babies will have at least two to five bowel movements every 24 hours for the first several months, although some babies will switch to less frequent but large bowel movements at about 6 weeks.
A baby that is sleeping rather than feeding every 2-3 hours or is generally lethargic may need to be assessed by a health care provider to make sure that he is adequately hydrated.
These are additional important signs that indicate your baby is receiving enough milk:
The baby nurses frequently averaging at least 8-12 feedings per 24-hour period.
The baby is allowed to determine the length of the feeding, which may be 10 to 20 minutes per breast or longer.
Baby's swallowing sounds are audible as he is breastfeeding.
The baby should gain at least 4-7 ounces per week after the fourth day of life.
The baby will be alert and active, appear healthy, have good color, firm skin, and will be growing in length and head circumference.
The physical act of breastfeeding is more than the quantity of milk that is supplied, as you will find once you hold your baby in your arms. Breastfeeding is warmth, nutrition, and mother's love all rolled into one. Understanding and appreciating the signs of knowing when your baby is getting enough to eat is the one of the most important things a new mother can learn. If you have any concerns regarding your baby, they should be addressed with your health care practitioner.
If you do need to increase your milk supply after keeping track of wet diapers, bowel movements and weight gain, there are several options you can try to increase your milk supply. See our FAQ on "Increasing Your Milk Supply" and refer to our Web resource page on milk supply issues or further information. Keep in touch with your health care provider if your baby is not gaining well or is losing weight. In most cases, improved breastfeeding techniques will quickly resolve the situation, but occasionally, weight gain may indicate a health problem.
La Leche League's THE WOMANLY ART OF BREASTFEEDING is the most complete resource available for the breastfeeding mother and can be ordered from the LLLI Online Store or through your local Leader. The online catalogue may also have other products, such as information sheets on topics like "How to Know Your Healthy Full-Term Breastfed Baby is Getting Enough Milk" and "Increasing Your Milk." These may also be available from your local Leader. You can find a LLL Leader and Group by going to our Web page on finding a local Leader.
Last updated 10/29/06 by jlm.
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Amandine.K
- Posts: 872
- Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:40 am
- Location: Helsinki
Do what you think is right. Breastfed babies don't put weight the same way as a bottle-fed baby. It's not the amount of weight your baby gain in a week that the neuvola lady should look but if he puts weight regularly and that he follows a nice growth pattern. If your baby wets his nappies, if he seems satisfied after feeds then that means you have enough milk. Hang in there it gets easier. Also feed him whenever he wants, drink plenty of water. Your milk supply adjusts to your baby 
So it seems things have changed complitely during the years. 20-30 years ago all neuvola people were advocating ONLY breast feeding, bottles were almost sinful. One month is a very short time to get it going. And your baby is satisfied. Mine wasn´t, he was in constant hunger, and also told it. I wanted to give him the bottle, but neuvola made me feel so bad about it, that I just went on torturing the whole house and most of all the baby. That went on for four months, and only when the baby´s weight didn´t increase at all they allowed me to go for the bottle.
I would say that keep on trying, and when it becomes very clear that it is not enough, then go for the bottle. And even if you take the bottle, try also breast feed at least a little so that the baby also gets some of the good stuff breast milk has.
I would say that keep on trying, and when it becomes very clear that it is not enough, then go for the bottle. And even if you take the bottle, try also breast feed at least a little so that the baby also gets some of the good stuff breast milk has.
Go with your own feeling, but keep on monitoring your baby. If he keeps on wetting his diapers, puts on weight steadily, seems happy and content and doesn't seem lethargic, there is no reason to supplement.
I know how you feel, I had the same experience twice while I breastfed my own daughter. After beeing reassured by a La Leche midwife from my home country, I kept on breastfeeding despite what I was told first at the hospital and later by my Neuvola lady. Now, I feel rewarded by the healthy, happy toddler my daughter has become.
Neuvola ladies are human too, they are not always right. Keep in mind that some of them base their advice on information intended for Finnish babies, who tend to be a little cuddlier.
I know how you feel, I had the same experience twice while I breastfed my own daughter. After beeing reassured by a La Leche midwife from my home country, I kept on breastfeeding despite what I was told first at the hospital and later by my Neuvola lady. Now, I feel rewarded by the healthy, happy toddler my daughter has become.
Neuvola ladies are human too, they are not always right. Keep in mind that some of them base their advice on information intended for Finnish babies, who tend to be a little cuddlier.
Hi sarael,
I think this article should put your mind at rest!
WHO Revise Growth Chart
After all these years, finally, the World Health Organisation (WHO) has revised the growth chart to reflect what the breastfeeding world has been saying this while - there is nothing wrong with our babies, there is something wrong with your chart!
The report further states that the WHO admits that mothers have been given potentially harmful advice on infant nutrition for the last 40 years and that the growth charts have contributed to childhood obesity and other health related problems in adulthood.
http://www.parentingjoy.com/content/view/189/1/
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 708410.ece
I think this article should put your mind at rest!
WHO Revise Growth Chart
After all these years, finally, the World Health Organisation (WHO) has revised the growth chart to reflect what the breastfeeding world has been saying this while - there is nothing wrong with our babies, there is something wrong with your chart!
The report further states that the WHO admits that mothers have been given potentially harmful advice on infant nutrition for the last 40 years and that the growth charts have contributed to childhood obesity and other health related problems in adulthood.
http://www.parentingjoy.com/content/view/189/1/
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 708410.ece
thank you very much for all the positive and supportive responces!
i feel much better about what i'm doing now and if my son keeps growing steadily and he seems satisfied after feedings and wets his nappies etc. i'm not going to give him any formula even if i still get told to do so by the neuvola...
and thank you for the links.
thank you for putting my mind at ease, you have been very helpful...
sara
i feel much better about what i'm doing now and if my son keeps growing steadily and he seems satisfied after feedings and wets his nappies etc. i'm not going to give him any formula even if i still get told to do so by the neuvola...
and thank you for the links.
thank you for putting my mind at ease, you have been very helpful...
sara
This site also has a lot of great info on breastfeeding. There is info about the diff. weight gain of breastfed and bottlefed babies too.
http://www.kellymom.com/index.html
Just a side note about neuvola nurses---I have an interesting
experience with one. At my son's 4-month appt, she first stressed at how impt it is for babies to only start eating solids at 6 months rather than 4 months as previously suggested. She said it was great that we were waiting still to offer him solids. Then she weighed him. And then she compared his weight to the growth chart on her computer. He was on the lower end.
And that changed our nurse into a completely different person.
Then she urged us to feed him food so he would be on track with the rest of the babies on the growth chart!!!
I was shocked, to say the least. Her opinion went 180 degrees in a matter of minutes. Basically I think they are scared to not go by the books/charts, so they will advise accordingly.....
Of course being a first time mom I went home that morning and started to research like crazy and in the back of my mind secretly started freaking out about his weight gain. But that website mentioned above calmed me down. ALL BABIES ARE DIFFERENT!
I only ended up really giving him solids at 9months. he only had a few tastes here and there before that. He just loooooooves his momma's milk...
He's lean but bright-eyed and happy.
You are the best judge of your baby.
All the best,
Spectra
http://www.kellymom.com/index.html
Just a side note about neuvola nurses---I have an interesting
experience with one. At my son's 4-month appt, she first stressed at how impt it is for babies to only start eating solids at 6 months rather than 4 months as previously suggested. She said it was great that we were waiting still to offer him solids. Then she weighed him. And then she compared his weight to the growth chart on her computer. He was on the lower end.And that changed our nurse into a completely different person.
Then she urged us to feed him food so he would be on track with the rest of the babies on the growth chart!!!
I was shocked, to say the least. Her opinion went 180 degrees in a matter of minutes. Basically I think they are scared to not go by the books/charts, so they will advise accordingly.....
Of course being a first time mom I went home that morning and started to research like crazy and in the back of my mind secretly started freaking out about his weight gain. But that website mentioned above calmed me down. ALL BABIES ARE DIFFERENT!
I only ended up really giving him solids at 9months. he only had a few tastes here and there before that. He just loooooooves his momma's milk...
He's lean but bright-eyed and happy. You are the best judge of your baby.
All the best,
Spectra
Hi Sarael, one year ago I was in the same exact situation. The ladies in the hospital (and later on in neuvola) had also told me to start giving formula as my baby was not nursing perfectly well and not gaining enough weith. I did start giving formula but then little by little got rid of it. And here we are, my baby girl is now 13,5 months-old and still nursing. She is not a big baby but she is happy and lively as a well-fed baby should be.
Breastfeeding her was for me of high importance and I questionned myself a lot and questionned others as I wasn't sure she was nursing enough. My husband had gotten me the phone numbers of 2 ladies specialized in breastfeeding (and who speek english) and I have called them a few times at different stages when I was feeling unsecure about it. I always felt much better after the phonecall. Don't hesitate to call them (I'll send you a pm with their names and numbers). Their numbers were given to us by "Imetystuki" (finnish help for breastfeeding). They both have different ways of doing but they both have had many kids and breastfed them for a long time. You'll see also by listening to them that there is not only one way of doing.
Be confident on yourself...
Breastfeeding her was for me of high importance and I questionned myself a lot and questionned others as I wasn't sure she was nursing enough. My husband had gotten me the phone numbers of 2 ladies specialized in breastfeeding (and who speek english) and I have called them a few times at different stages when I was feeling unsecure about it. I always felt much better after the phonecall. Don't hesitate to call them (I'll send you a pm with their names and numbers). Their numbers were given to us by "Imetystuki" (finnish help for breastfeeding). They both have different ways of doing but they both have had many kids and breastfed them for a long time. You'll see also by listening to them that there is not only one way of doing.
Be confident on yourself...
Sara,
In Hungary my hungarian neuvola and the doctor told me these numbers:
a breastfed baby should gain 150 gramms weekly, or 400 gramms per a month, should have 6 or more wet diapers per day, and than your milk is enough for the baby. If you measure the baby after every breastfeeding (i dont recommend, it just made me more nervous), than the baby should eat 150 gramms of milk/ kilogramms of the baby a day.
Dont worry about the finnish neuvola, they know only the growth charts, they cant see the nice growing, happy babies. Brestfed babies are not that fat like formula fed babies, it was written down earlier also.
I was in the same situation. It took 2 months for me to calm down, and stop worrying about the quantity of my milk, when i beleived that its enough, everything went better.
Now my son is 13,5 months old, still breastfeeding him, we both love it. He was born with 3980 gramms, and he duplicated it when he was 6 months old, only by having breastmilk.
Those were just numbers what i wrote down, every baby is different of course.
Just keep on, dont worry!
Judit
In Hungary my hungarian neuvola and the doctor told me these numbers:
a breastfed baby should gain 150 gramms weekly, or 400 gramms per a month, should have 6 or more wet diapers per day, and than your milk is enough for the baby. If you measure the baby after every breastfeeding (i dont recommend, it just made me more nervous), than the baby should eat 150 gramms of milk/ kilogramms of the baby a day.
Dont worry about the finnish neuvola, they know only the growth charts, they cant see the nice growing, happy babies. Brestfed babies are not that fat like formula fed babies, it was written down earlier also.
I was in the same situation. It took 2 months for me to calm down, and stop worrying about the quantity of my milk, when i beleived that its enough, everything went better.
Now my son is 13,5 months old, still breastfeeding him, we both love it. He was born with 3980 gramms, and he duplicated it when he was 6 months old, only by having breastmilk.
Those were just numbers what i wrote down, every baby is different of course.
Just keep on, dont worry!
Judit
AFAIK there isn't a La Leche League here in Finland, but there are lots of different support groups for breastfeeding.
http://www.imetys.fi/itu/ryhmat.php
http://imetystukilista.net/ryhmat/?&blogid=1 (the list is on the right side, click on the city closest to you)
From the list above, breastfeeding support in English: http://imetystukilista.net/ryhmat/index ... 7&blogid=1
There is also a support phone number, by Imetyksen tuki ry:
http://www.imetys.fi/itu/puhelin.php
It says that they don't have any special phone times, as it is volunteers who are answering from home, but try to call during different times if they don't answer right away. And if the person answering cannot answer questions in English, they will re-direct you to a person who will
http://www.imetys.fi/itu/ryhmat.php
http://imetystukilista.net/ryhmat/?&blogid=1 (the list is on the right side, click on the city closest to you)
From the list above, breastfeeding support in English: http://imetystukilista.net/ryhmat/index ... 7&blogid=1
There is also a support phone number, by Imetyksen tuki ry:
http://www.imetys.fi/itu/puhelin.php
It says that they don't have any special phone times, as it is volunteers who are answering from home, but try to call during different times if they don't answer right away. And if the person answering cannot answer questions in English, they will re-direct you to a person who will