I've been offered a position in Holland, and am trying to figure out if it makes sense to take it up. Since I live in Finland, my situation here is the basis for comparison.
I would be grateful if anyone who has lived in both Finland and the Netherlands could share their views.
I am concerned about:
1. taxes
2. social security and health system
3. cost of housing
4. cost of everything else
5. daycare and schooling
the job is long-term, potentially life long, and we have two small children.
Thanks in advance for any insights you can give
moving from Finland to Netherlands
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Nathan Lillie
- Posts: 404
- Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2003 12:23 pm
- Location: Helsinki
moving from Finland to Netherlands
If you want to catch beasts you don't see every day,
You have to go places quite out-of-the-way.
You have to places no other can get to.
You have to get cold and you have to get wet, too.
If I Ran the Zoo, Dr. Suess
You have to go places quite out-of-the-way.
You have to places no other can get to.
You have to get cold and you have to get wet, too.
If I Ran the Zoo, Dr. Suess
1. taxes
19% VAT, income tax a bit lower than in Finland
2. social security and health system
Sucks, already the basic package is expensive like hell, and it covers only minor things. For example, I had 2 cavities filled in 2001 at the dentist, it cost me 120 euros, of which a bit over 20 euros was covered by my health insurance.
There's the familiar pension hole. You will have to take care yourself of a separate pension / life insurance, because by the time you reached the pension age, all the money will be gone.
3. cost of housing
Out of the roof. Depending on where you live, of course, but assuming that you are going to live somewhere in the Randstad (Amsterdam - Rotterdam - Utrecht - Amersfoort, that area), you better have a good job or a lot of savings.
4. cost of everything else
Food is generally cheaper than in Finland.
Communication, especially (mobile) telephony is stupidly expensive, however, gradually becoming cheaper as the consumer's unions are starting to complain.
5. daycare and schooling
Daycare is good, but insanely expensive. My sister and brother-in-law paid a massive bite out of one monthly salary to pay day care for their son, based on twice a week for four weeks. NOT funny.
The level of schooling is close to excellent, but also that is ridiculously expensive. Holland has a tuition fee, and gladly abuses that system. A university education (depending on what kind of education you're choosing) cost somewhere between 1500 and 10 000+ euros per year, and that doesn't include books and other education material.
Hope that didn't put your hopes down too much.
+ side: In Holland pretty much everyone speaks English, and the people are a lot less a-social than Finns
19% VAT, income tax a bit lower than in Finland
2. social security and health system
Sucks, already the basic package is expensive like hell, and it covers only minor things. For example, I had 2 cavities filled in 2001 at the dentist, it cost me 120 euros, of which a bit over 20 euros was covered by my health insurance.
There's the familiar pension hole. You will have to take care yourself of a separate pension / life insurance, because by the time you reached the pension age, all the money will be gone.
3. cost of housing
Out of the roof. Depending on where you live, of course, but assuming that you are going to live somewhere in the Randstad (Amsterdam - Rotterdam - Utrecht - Amersfoort, that area), you better have a good job or a lot of savings.
4. cost of everything else
Food is generally cheaper than in Finland.
Communication, especially (mobile) telephony is stupidly expensive, however, gradually becoming cheaper as the consumer's unions are starting to complain.
5. daycare and schooling
Daycare is good, but insanely expensive. My sister and brother-in-law paid a massive bite out of one monthly salary to pay day care for their son, based on twice a week for four weeks. NOT funny.
The level of schooling is close to excellent, but also that is ridiculously expensive. Holland has a tuition fee, and gladly abuses that system. A university education (depending on what kind of education you're choosing) cost somewhere between 1500 and 10 000+ euros per year, and that doesn't include books and other education material.
Hope that didn't put your hopes down too much.
+ side: In Holland pretty much everyone speaks English, and the people are a lot less a-social than Finns
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Karhunkoski
- Posts: 7034
- Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:44 pm
- Location: Keski-Suomi
In holland the general income taxes are lower then in Finland. But if you look overall then you pay a !"#¤% more for things like electricity, 'environment taxes', regional taxes on your house etc then in Finland.
In general from a months salary and with all cost deducted you have more left over in Finland then in Holland. Add to that having to buy an overpriced house, 1100 euro a year for basic (obligatory) health insurance etc you'd better make sure you have an ok salary
In general from a months salary and with all cost deducted you have more left over in Finland then in Holland. Add to that having to buy an overpriced house, 1100 euro a year for basic (obligatory) health insurance etc you'd better make sure you have an ok salary
Holland is over crowded and it shows in many small aspects.
- People are more social than in Finland, especially towards foreigners, but they are also much less patient.
- Job security has become less over the years. That makes people less tolerant towards strangers who take the good jobs. The decline of the social security accentuate this even further.
- Crime rates are higher. It is necessary to assume people will try to take advantage of you. If they don't, it's a pleasant surprise.
- Traffic is hell.
When I moved to Finland, it was a great improvement on my living conditions, although money wise it became more difficult.
- People are more social than in Finland, especially towards foreigners, but they are also much less patient.
- Job security has become less over the years. That makes people less tolerant towards strangers who take the good jobs. The decline of the social security accentuate this even further.
- Crime rates are higher. It is necessary to assume people will try to take advantage of you. If they don't, it's a pleasant surprise.
- Traffic is hell.
When I moved to Finland, it was a great improvement on my living conditions, although money wise it became more difficult.
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Nathan Lillie
- Posts: 404
- Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2003 12:23 pm
- Location: Helsinki
Thanks for all the replies. The place I am considering is in Groningen, so maybe that would be different than some other areas.
Taxes sound a bit lower than here, but then this mandatory insurance thing sounds pretty shady.
Housing is not exactly cheap in the Helsinki region -is it going to be more in Groningen?
You have to also pay for schooling? Isn't there a good public system, or is that like with the health care?
Anybody know if there are any Finns in Groningen? For the kids it would be nice to have Finnish-speakers to play with.
Taxes sound a bit lower than here, but then this mandatory insurance thing sounds pretty shady.
Housing is not exactly cheap in the Helsinki region -is it going to be more in Groningen?
You have to also pay for schooling? Isn't there a good public system, or is that like with the health care?
Anybody know if there are any Finns in Groningen? For the kids it would be nice to have Finnish-speakers to play with.
If you want to catch beasts you don't see every day,
You have to go places quite out-of-the-way.
You have to places no other can get to.
You have to get cold and you have to get wet, too.
If I Ran the Zoo, Dr. Suess
You have to go places quite out-of-the-way.
You have to places no other can get to.
You have to get cold and you have to get wet, too.
If I Ran the Zoo, Dr. Suess
Two links..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groningen_(city)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groningen_(province)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groningen_(city)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groningen_(province)
People do not become more irritable as they grow old - they simply stop making the effort to avoid annoying others.
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chickensexer
- Posts: 1248
- Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 8:50 pm
Groningen is a lovely little town, about the size of Turku and the biggest town in the North of the Netherlands. I lived there years ago for about half a year and quite enjoyed it. It's a bit off from the biggest Dutch cities, about 2.5 hrs by train to Amsterdam (which is a long way in Dutch dimensions but not that bad really) and close to the lovely Dutch islands. I would assume that the housing shortage isn't that bad in the Groningen area compared to the Randstad, but then again I don't know how things are these days. At least in terms of higher education their university has a good reputation. Having a quick look on the internet, it seems that there is even a Finnish saturday school and other Finnish-related activities:
http://www.suomi-koulu.nl/linkit.html
As far as I know, compulsory schooling is tax financed, also private schooling (which, as I heard, is very popular in the Netherlands). But maybe native Dutch people can elaborate on that.
Not being up to date about bureaucratic and other practical issues - in my experience, the quality of life in Groningen is very good. And regarding crime&safety issues - at least I never felt unsafe in Groningen. Bikes get stolen all the time though.
http://www.suomi-koulu.nl/linkit.html
As far as I know, compulsory schooling is tax financed, also private schooling (which, as I heard, is very popular in the Netherlands). But maybe native Dutch people can elaborate on that.
Not being up to date about bureaucratic and other practical issues - in my experience, the quality of life in Groningen is very good. And regarding crime&safety issues - at least I never felt unsafe in Groningen. Bikes get stolen all the time though.
disregard what chickensexer linked too..it indeed happened in groningen but it is a very lovely city. I worked there for about a year. Great city (student city) to go out in. Housing indeed is cheaper then in the randstad area and the people are friendly. If you move abit away from the center for housing it is actually quite affordable. Cheaper then Helsinki in comparison. Just beware that, as in every city, there are some areas you might not want to live.
Regarding schooling. Yes it is partly tax funded but you will have to pay. There is not really private vs public schooling tho. It has been a while for me but if i recall right schooling up to 16 is free or you have to pay very little. Depending on the age of your kids the schools are
4-11/12 Basisschool
11/12 - 16/18 middelbareschool (different levels. Lowest level 4 year highest 6 years)
16/18 - xx University (bc and dr degrees) or Hogeschool (bc degrees)
If i recall right middelbare school will be about 1000 euro per kid per year. Uni and Hogeschool a bit more maybe 1400. There is alot of talk at the moment abotu making the sutdy books for free but nothing certain yet
Regarding schooling. Yes it is partly tax funded but you will have to pay. There is not really private vs public schooling tho. It has been a while for me but if i recall right schooling up to 16 is free or you have to pay very little. Depending on the age of your kids the schools are
4-11/12 Basisschool
11/12 - 16/18 middelbareschool (different levels. Lowest level 4 year highest 6 years)
16/18 - xx University (bc and dr degrees) or Hogeschool (bc degrees)
If i recall right middelbare school will be about 1000 euro per kid per year. Uni and Hogeschool a bit more maybe 1400. There is alot of talk at the moment abotu making the sutdy books for free but nothing certain yet
definitely a foreigner thing to do.
I know nothing about Groningen, but prices and availability of housing is a lot better than for example Amsterdam. You could have a look at Funda for houseprices, http://www.funda.nl/WoningAanbod/Koop/, but it's maybe a bit early to start looking?
I know nothing about Groningen, but prices and availability of housing is a lot better than for example Amsterdam. You could have a look at Funda for houseprices, http://www.funda.nl/WoningAanbod/Koop/, but it's maybe a bit early to start looking?
