Need Advise-Establish company+recident permit+unemploy money

M.8 · Post by **M.8** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:02 am

Hello All,

My bf and I both are non EU citizen, unluckly, he lost his job, he is getting money from unemployment fund. We both rely on the money.

We want to stay here in Finland, he is looking for job, but did not get any yet... He can not renew his A-visa if he can not find a job and he has to leave Finland. He do not speak Finnish, he is very worried that will happen. he is in very low spirit now.

In the worst case, one option is to establish a one person's company in order to renew his visa. I'd like to know if it is possible? how does it work? how long it takes to establish a private company and applying for visa with it?

If he do so, we can see that he may not be able to have any business when he established the company, I'd like to know if there is a possibility still to get money from unemployment fund? how does it work? and if the company has no business after it established, what kind of situation he will facing?

I really appreciate any advice, salutions regarding to my concerns. Thanks in advance!!!

You can reply me here, or sending me a forum Msg, or email to: ookao@hotmail.com

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rinso · Post by **rinso** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:13 am

In the worst case, one option is to establish a one person's company in order to renew his visa.

As far as I know, this trick is not accepted. Others might have more info on this.

If you both are living together for more than 2 years (and can prove it) a residence permit based on relationship might be your best option. (that is if you are EU)

raamv · Post by **raamv** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:33 am

There is one way!! but then you cannot start a toimanimi!! you need to start an Oy and one of the shareholders of that must be an EU/EEA resident.
So if you can that person whom you trust and you have around €2,500 Euros ( Or get a loan from a bank or the org. that helps start companies (forgot)for that with a Business case for your Oy.) then you probably will get an A visa...Also, you must show some kind of plan that you are going to be profitable.
If you manage to do ti you Could potentially extend this visa..but they generally appreciate this method and is an uphill battle
Otherwise, Find another job within the A visa time period.. Else Go home!!
Rinso, Both are Non-EU as she stated!! so no leeways there Unless she gets a job and he stays on her visa as a dependant!!
Edited: corrected wrong information

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:45 am

Nationality has nothing to do with setting up a company in Finland. Only residency counts. In order to start up a toiminimi you must be a resident of an EEA country (European Economic Area). This rule also applies to Finns. (A non-resident can exceptionally set up a company but must have a trade permit from the NBPR.) You need no capital but the registration fee is 100 euro. I don't think you can acquire residency this way (the system works the other way round.... residency is a pre-requisite for trading).

The Companies act does not stipulate any requirements regarding residency or domicile for setting up a limited company. A limited company can be set up by a non-resident. The minimum share capital for setting up a limited company is 2500 euro, "Venture capital" is available if you have a solid business idea and a good business plan. The state offers "startti-raha" which is a small living allowance to tie you over for a few weeks but it cannot be used as capital for the company. Establishling a limited company is quite complicated : you need to register and then nominate a Board of Directors (1-5 people) and auditors, prepare a Memorandum of Association and the Articles etc. You will have to register for VAT (obligatory to qualify for startti-raha) and maintain accounts. The Managing Director of the company must be resident in the EEA (Europe), he does not have to be a shareholder (this rule also applies to Finns).

For more information on starting a company and obtaining any aid like startti-raha, you should get an appointment with your local T&E Centre (Employment and Economic Development centre). They can give you more information and tell you of any courses that are being organised in your area.

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:26 pm

M.8 wrote:If he do so, we can see that he may not be able to have any business when he established the company, I'd like to know if there is a possibility still to get money from unemployment fund?

Unemployment fund is for unemployeds, not entrepeneurs. Once you start a business you throw all your benefits away.

and if the company has no business after it established, what kind of situation he will facing?

Banktrupcy? Anyways to get a permit renewal with a business it has to be a proven running business.

mrkmn · Post by **mrkmn** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:00 pm

I have almost the same problem, my only option is either find a job or be self-employed.
I guess i have everything to start, my only doubt is about one important requirement to be granted this kind of permit: in order to be self-employed you must submit the documents in your home country.
does any body know the possibilities if you submit your application in Finland?

Rinso, Both are Non-EU as she stated!! so no leeways there Unless she gets a job and he stays on her visa as a dependant!!

That is not possible if they can't prove they have lived together for 2 years.

M.8 · Post by **M.8** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:24 pm

Thanks for all info!!!
Well, it seems the information is not positive. Establishing a private company will not works... as i understood that we should have already some business on going(or can be proven) before the company estabished, right? we could make some business plan, but not business yet. Hopeless...

mrkmn · Post by **mrkmn** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:22 pm

I am afraid you got confused. Self-employment is still an option for you, not an easy one though.
In my opinion the advice from raamv is quite good. Consider to include a Finn in the company as shareholder.

Nationality has nothing to do with setting up a company in Finland. Only residency counts.

I completely disagree with Penelope, when it's about getting a permit or renewing it, having a Finn involved makes a big difference.

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:54 pm

mrkmn wrote:I am afraid you got confused. Self-employment is still an option for you, not an easy one though.
In my opinion the advice from raamv is quite good. Consider to include a Finn in the company as shareholder.
Nationality has nothing to do with setting up a company in Finland. Only residency counts.
I completely disagree with Penelope, when it's about getting a permit or renewing it, having a Finn involved makes a big difference.

I said NOTHING about getting a permit or renewing it. You have completely misunderstood what I wrote. Read my post again. I was talking about the Companies Act (this is the LAW that regulates company registration) :

You do NOT have to be Finnish or even European to start a sole-trader company.
You DO have to be resident in the EEA (European Economic Area)- whether you are Finnish or not.

That is not my opinion it is the law.

Also you are confusing the notion of self-employment (a sole-trader - no share capital required) with the definition of a limited company (OY - share capital minimum 2500 euro but you would be a shareholder, not an employee)

raamv said:
There is one way!! but then you cannot start a toimanimi!! you need to start an Oy and one of the Major shareholders of that must be a Finnish Citizen.

This is incorrect. There is NOTHING in the Companies Act that stipulates that one of the shareholders must be a FInnish citizen. There are hundreds of companies in Finland with foreign shareholders. Shareholders do not even have to be PEOPLE, they can be (usually are) companies, banks, institutions.

So if you can Find a Finn whom you trust and you have around €10,000 Euros ( Or get a loan from a bank or the org. that helps start companies (forgot)for that with a Business case for your Oy.) then you probably will get an A visa...Also, you must show some kind of plan that you are going to employ Finns!!
If you manage to do ti you Could potentially extend this visa.

This is utter rubbish. First of all the start-up capital for a company is 2500 euro not 10 000. There is ABSOLUTELY NO GUARANTEE that setting up a company will secure you a visa. For the simple reason that there is no requirement to be resident in Europe in order to set up a limited company. You can live in Fidji and still start up an Oy in Finland if you are able to nominate an EEA resident as your Managing Director. And he doesn't have to be FInnish either.

There are many successful limited companies (OY) that do not employ Finns. In fact it would be illegal to discriminate in this way.

This is a TYPICAL example of someone taking the advice they WANT to read rather than have to read the truth.

I have been on the company start-up courses, I have bought and read the books, I have my own limited company. And I have 20 years experience in finance and auditing (so I know how to read the stuff).

But if you prefer to take raamv's advice then go ahead. All the same to me.

But I suggest you go to the T&E office first.

raamv · Post by **raamv** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:54 pm

Penelope is correct.
http://www.prh.fi/en/kaupparekisteri/yr ... tedcompany
More information can be found on one's supporting business to be profitable, non-EU self employed etc etc:
http://www.yrityssuomi.fi/default.aspx?nodeid=15779

The information I provided is old and outdated and I apologize for it ( Companies act changed in Sept. 2006 and I have not read it after that)
The thing though is that the way I understood was that an Oy was to have a Finnish Board Member was also wrong. it is any EU/EEA resident. => Wrong!!

From
http://www.prh.fi/en/kaupparekisteri/yr ... tedcompany
Limited company and housing company
Question: Can a foreigner be a founder/shareholder /Board member/Managing Director (Housing Manager) in a limited company?
Answer: The nationality of the person is not a decisive factor. What is essential is in which country he or she lives permanently. In certain cases a person residing outside the European Economic Area (EEA) needs a permit from the NBPR.

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:46 am

So that's sorted then

Yes, it all changed in 2006 so if you go to the library to borrow the start-up books, check you get the right edition. The library in Iso Omena was still lending the old version last time I borrowed it (now I have my own copy, latest version, ordered from Stockmann and deductible as a business expense). The VAT rules have recently changed, there are new minimum thresholds for VAT registration and accounting, I need to read up on that, it's not in the book.
The T&E centres are the place to go for the latest info.

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