Starting a job on Monday- Help please

johngibbons6155 · Post by **johngibbons6155** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:26 pm

I`m starting a new job over here in Finland on Monday, Just have a couple of quick questions I hope you can help me with.
I`m from Ireland and have lived here for the past three months. I work as a Carpenter and that`s what i`ll be doing over here, I`m just wondering what the work ethic is like with Finnish people (In the construction industry and in general).

Also the job involves me staying away from my new apartment for four days a week, so I will be living/sharing a cabin with about four Finnish guys. Since I arrived over here , I`ve noticed that Fins tend to keep to themselves ( ie Not to willing to make new friends or talk to people they don`t know more than they have to). So when were at the cabin after work , should i just read a book or try to interact with them ( I have been lazy about the whole learning Finnish thing , i only know the basics , so interacting might not be an option anyway )

I haven`t had the need/pressure to use much finnish as I have been renovating my girlfriends house since i arrived and her and her family all speak English.

Any advice welcome please!

John

**Sponsor:**

johngibbons6155 · Post by **johngibbons6155** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:29 pm

And also, I will be the first non Finnish person to ever work in the company, and i was told that most of the directors of the company want to meet me on the first day + I heard most of the people in the company were talking about me.................

My girlfriends dad is an Engineer in the company..............

inkku · Post by **inkku** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:48 pm

Work ethic in construction industry? Holy cow, is their any?

Really, just be normal social you:

- speak slowly and clearly, make it easy for them to interact with you. they might keep to themselves because they are shy and unsure about their language skills

- appreciate everything Finnish. koskenkorva, lovely Finnish food such as lenkkimakkara etc.

- join drinking, if any

- try to learn some Finnish words, eg ask the guys to teach you some

Do not worry, they'll adopt you and you'll soon be a hyvä jätkä

(the highest compliment in this country)

Skywalker · Post by **Skywalker** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:53 pm

i was in your position during the summer when i was working.

I already know some finnish, and i tried wherever possible to speak it, even if i was getting it a bit wrong the guys still liked that i was trying, they would teach me finnish words and i would teach them english words they didnt know.

yeah if there is any social activity then join in, if you dont you may find you get excluded from future social activities, not always.

Just try and make an effort in everything, but don't go too over the top.

Best of luck

onkko · Post by **onkko** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:28 pm

Work ethics.. hmm.. you come on time and just do your work and do not slack, follow what others do

Remember that whine is common amusement, they whine about work, other workers, bosses, weather, wifes.. all. I think if whine stops then revolution is near

What you have observed about finns is true to certain point, if you live with others you have to show you are interested to socialise or youre left alone.
Talk to them, sit in kitchen with them even if you dont understand what they talk. Some of them probably talk some english and take this as crash course of finnish

And remember that in workplace full of mens jokes are harsh and may be viewed as insults or whatever. Take it like man, you dont have to laugh but dont get offended or you got stamp "@#$%" in you. Its just common to whine and insult others, its joke dont take it seriously.

And about talking about you, well we talk always about new workers and since youre foreigner its more talking. Puts pressure to you huh

Its just common finnish thing, we have to know who you are, where youre from, what you can do etc.. nothing to worry

My granparent did that in extent "well i was picking berries in "place". "place" is owned by "man" who is son of "parents" and cousin of "cousin", his granparents are "names" and owned "place" in there. One of granparents brothers went to usa, his chidren is in same scool as you....".

tell about how much they knew about others

Conclusion, just do your job and try to talk to others as much as possible. youll see how they do things and just follow. They are just curious about "woot foreigner, will he be like us? does he eat babies?" and you have to prove yourself worthy.

odon · Post by **odon** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:35 pm

search for a mad irish man called Roo who hangs around here...he will answer your questions...

donald · Post by **donald** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:19 pm

John,

I can understand if you feel a little bit anxious not knowing how to handle the situations you might face. Just remember, Finland is a culture of low feedback, means: do not expect anyone to tell you made good job, even if you'd obviously be the best guy they ever hired. Also keep in mind that Finns are used to solve problems by doing, not by talking. Just go and do your job, do it properly, and do not do even think about mentioning what you have achieved (unless asked for it). And do not complain. Most likely your colleagues and your superiors will notice the outcome of your job, if it is good, then you're allright. Don't panic if you don't receive any signs of approval and recognition for you and your work. That won't mean they hated you and were not satisfied with your job. They're just being Finns...

If they once mention you should go to the Sauna with them, then do it. That if anything is a sign that they appreciate you!! Then you're in the club. And sauna is the place to talk about things you can't talk about elsewhere. There you can be honest. But be modest at all times when chosing your words.

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:36 am

Also the job involves me staying away from my new apartment for four days a week, so I will be living/sharing a cabin with about four Finnish guys.

the thing is this is nothing extraordinary to Finns - 90% of the male population goes to the army so anything less that 12 people to a room is considered private... and you probably have a bog *with a door*. its irritating to share a room but then again you might find "modesty" nonexistant...

I`m from Ireland and have lived here for the past three months.

the most annoying thing about foreigners to a Finn is usually they have a verbal diarrea.... I used to have an Irish gf and she annoyed the hell out of me asking constantly "are you allright" when I NEVER SAID THERE WAS ANYTHING WRONG DID I - and whats wrong with me then??? I think foreign women also have a problem when Finnish men say to them "i love you" when they start the relationship and after 10 years she asks why he never says anything likewise and he says "I never said 'I don't love you' did I?"...

so I think the book is a good idea - you need to be able to "read" your mates if someone is talkative or someone is not... Finns are stereotypically silent but then as far as sterotypes go you always get the one breaking the rule. but if you start babbling like a bean kettle then someone might... well..

your man there gives a good advice about the feedback... if someone tells you "not bad" thats a praise with elations...

And also, I will be the first non Finnish person to ever work in the company, and i was told that most of the directors of the company want to meet me on the first day + I heard most of the people in the company were talking about me..

now as we "all know" the Irish are next to the English making carpetted bogs and plumbing into the outside of the house and having no clue of insulating or triple windows and having an electric fireplace for heating - so they are very "interested" to see how someone from a country where the cars have the steering wheel in the passenger seat does things

so now you need to be the model foreigner as you think if you screw things up they'll hire another?

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:54 am

oh, and the Finnish way.. I'm just imagining 3 working-class guys my own age... Finns have this thing of "things everybody knows"... also in school if they ever learned "foreign languages" if you spoke out and made a mistake everyone laughed and the teacher gave you a minus point so speaking in foreign languages might have a barrier..., so you might inadvertently be doing something highly offensive (like being inside with your shoes on) and nobody will say you anything... just stare at you... but then in the sauna after 10 beers the guy never given you the time of day might "open up" and be quite direct... or the guys staring at you for a week get a spokesperson to say - "you irishman - you sleep outside in tent" but they won't say to you you should take off your shoes inside as that is what "everybdy knows" innit?

Finnish communication *can* be quite... telepathic...

BTW they might understand if you drink tea instead of coffee... but don't be surprised if they sprain their eyes as the "crazy foreigner" puts milk into the tea...

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:00 am

Don't panic if you don't receive any signs of approval and recognition for you and your work.

No news is good news.

In Finland "comment cards" or "feedback" means complaints. to get a thank you note is so rare they publish such in the company newsletter...

That won't mean they hated you and were not satisfied with your job.

more over someone american-style coming to say "great job" means you just made a royal cockup... we had a foreign boss he was told *not* to go complement the staff he was causing them a lot of stress

if they once mention you should go to the Sauna with them, then do it. That if anything is a sign that they appreciate you!! Then you're in the club. And sauna is the place to talk about things you can't talk about elsewhere. There you can be honest.

oh, and the thing is - better brace yourself - *not* being buck naked or trying to hide your privates with a towel is poofy. (as you are trying to hide the hardon or then you're a woman)... and they will "test" you as for how long you can stay in the sauna while they are tossing the water... its an initiation rite of sorts.

and being in the sauna is a bit like the Japanese going to sing karaoke with the boss - you are equal and can berate he system - nobody "remembers" much anything (or atleast reminds anyone of what they did) but until you are "in the know" I'd just observe more than opine at first as there is a tendency of Finns getting highly annoyed of certain things...

johngibbons6155 · Post by **johngibbons6155** » Sat Aug 30, 2008 9:13 pm

Thanks for the information guys, there is a lot of useful information there! Fingers crossed i`ll get on fine! , but kinda scared about the naked sauna thing!

While working in my girlfriends house today i had an 'interesting' situation

We were installing a new raised deck, her dad , grand-dad and a welder were trying to figure out how to measure the steel that was to be used.

They stood there talking about it - at the same time i just marked it out on my own , then they talked about it a bit more and finally did it a different way- which was about 20 mins later...................................even though i had all the sizes we needed............................'Kinda' pissed me off!!!!!!

But we had BBQ after, which was nice

onkko · Post by **onkko** » Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:02 pm

Dont be scared about sauna, its just place where you relax

Even childrens go there when theyre able to sit (and short visits even before that), just lower seat of sauna and in bathtub.
And think about nakedness as norm, youre weird if you have any clothes on in sauna. Finn wont think twice to get clothes off even with total strangers (check sauna in public swimming pool), its sauna you should be naked in there.
They probably test how much "löyly" you can take, just for fun and because youre foreigner so its nice to torture you

I remember one foreigner who came sauna with us and fleed yellin "finnish people are crazy!"

löyly = steam and the associated heat generated by pouring water on the hot stones of a sauna

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:18 am

oh, and the "traditional" hole in the ice is reserved for tourists... I mean you can do it if you want but I am not *that* crazy

Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:14 pm

onkko wrote: Finn wont think twice to get clothes off even with total strangers (check sauna in public swimming pool), its sauna you should be naked in there.

Last time I went to sauna at public swimming pool, there were note by the sauna's door: "Ei uimahousuissa saunaan!" = "No swimming trunks in sauna!"

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:19 pm

thats because the chlorine in the water in wet trunks is poisonous

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