Underage drinking/public drunkeness in Finland...

Munlaw · Post by **Munlaw** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:54 pm

I've watched a few episodes POLIISI TV on youtube, and noticed that apprehending drunk youths seems to be a big part of being a Police Officer in Finland..

Just few questions, is being drunk underage or having alcohol underage (which is 19/20 in Finland, right ?) a criminal offence in Finland like it is much of the US, or is an administrative offence punishible by a fine and possibly being held by police until sober like it is here in Canada?

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EP · Post by EP » Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:25 pm

No, it is not a criminal offence or punishable.

The legal age to buy beer and wine is 18, 20 for hard stuff. But those uncontrollably drunk are usually younger.

The police may hold the kid and let him/her sleep it off if it looks like staying outside might be dangerous. (for example if it is very cold and the kid might get a brilliant idea to sleep in the snow) OR they take the kid home if they have time to do that and manage to get the address.

EP · Post by EP » Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:31 pm

I just remembered what I saw a couple of months ago: There is this park nearby where teenagers like to hang out. One Saturday evening there were at least 30 youngsters, lots of empty beer cans and 5 police cars that surrounded the kids. They had made them call home. Now they were waiting for the parents to arrive and get their little darlings.

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:35 pm

it also depends, we're really underpoliced here so they often don't even bother unless the kids are making a racket.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:41 pm

I don't know about the administrative/criminal distinction (or does it even really exist in Finland). Youngsters (over 15 years old) can be fined for it. In theory the law says that the maximum penalty for "illegal possession of alcoholic drink" is two years of prison, but that is purely theoretical.

Munlaw · Post by **Munlaw** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:52 am

The legal age to drink is 19 in Ontario, if one is caught drinking underage, a Police/Conservation Officer or University/Transit Constable can issue a person between 16 and 19 a ticket in the 80 Euro range; if they are under 16 but over 12, the Officer can make the youth appear before a youth court Judge (an notifying of parents), underage drinking is not considered a criminal offence anywhere in Canada (although it is in most of the US)...

Drunk in public is about a 50 Euro fine and detention until sober (so they don't decide a snowbank is a good place to sleep off their drunkeness), again not considered a criminal offence anywhere in Canada...

Underage drinking is a big problem in the rural areas of Ontario...

mrjimsfc · Post by **mrjimsfc** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:24 am

I've heard it explained that those younger than 20 can't/don't work til they drop, so they have nothing else to do but get drunk and have sex. Since the guys don't really get much sex, they get really drunk.

Tiwaz · Post by **Tiwaz** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:54 am

tummansininen wrote:Keep in mind that alcohol is a HUGE part of Finnish culture. Penelope and I have noted in the past that we seem to be in a minority that don't agree with a very common attitude that "kids will be kids" and it's an unavoidable part of growing up in Finland - because a great many Finnish parents seem to just accept that underage teens will mess around with alcohol at some point. IMHO that's implicit blessing to allow them to do it. Others won't all agree, but that's life.

PLEASE, all the Finnish parents don't jump down my throat. It's simply an observation, and of course it might be that we only notice the parents who have a loose reign, and never hear of the ones who expect their 16yos to be inside before 17.00 every night.

16yo inside before 17? Bleh. It is supposed to be home not prison.

But I agree. Though I would put considerable amount of blame on simple concept of Finland steadily losing the attitude that you actually have responsibility.
Parent has responsibility for their kids, kids have responsibility for their deeds. That is concept which has sadly been eroding for a while now.

Partially I think it is due to lack of actual punishment. If there are no consequences to your action... Specially young people tend to do stupid things. And when they grow up like that, even as adults they will lack the basic understanding of consequences. World is just a big party, and whatever you do you only get little slap on the wrist.

Until something hits big time.

Mattlill2000 · Post by **Mattlill2000** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:13 am

16yo inside before 17? Bleh. It is supposed to be home not prison.

I agree with this statement. Its important for the kids to have a social life. I disagree with this tight grip concept. I encourage my kids to think for themselves and set their own standards within a certain framework that I as a parent have established. eg. Yesterday my daughter was dead tired for her wakeup to go school. Letting her set her own standards isn't working, so intervention is necasary. When my son turned 18, we went out and I bought him a pint, to show an example of how alcohol should be drank. To be enjoyed, not to go in a park and guzzle illegally bought liqour etc.
Now I'm by no means a perfect parent and if I had another run at parenting I would be a much better parent but at New Years Eve my wife and I went to the local pub and "partied". We met parents of a friends of our sons and "partied". At about 3:00am we began our trek to the taxi stop and met our kids with their friends hanging out outside. There were about 15 of them and everyone of them were in better shape than us. In fact I was proud of the way they were behaving. Their good kids.
Good Parenting or Good Luck. Take your pick

Mattlill2000 · Post by **Mattlill2000** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:16 am

I would also like to add that it is a known fact that there is alcohol around and it is the duty of us parents to teach them about alcohol abuse in our best way. PLUS as a parent you have to be open minded enough to accept the fact that they are only kids and if a problem arises the kids have the security to know that they can come home to understanding parents and not wind up in a snow bank too scared to go home. Fortunately my kids have never been in that position and once again is it good parenting or good luck?

karel · Post by **karel** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:26 am

I was in Kamppi yesterday where a guy was being told off by two security guards for drinking a cider in public.

The guy wasn't making any problems, wasn't drunk, or annoying. He was just sitting there with his can and taking a sip every now and then.

Security made him toss the can.

Mattlill2000 · Post by **Mattlill2000** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:23 pm

but if my kids aren't home and it's dark

Except in Finland its never dark in the summer and always dark in the winter

While I think Kerava is quite a safe area, unfortunately it has had more of its fair share of violent youth crimes. About 8 years ago there was a murder and it involved a few minors. The police couldn't locate the parents of one of them for a week as they were out of the country. They left their kids with a fridge full of food and stuffed their wallets. To me that should be a crime.

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:42 pm

yes you then can have the kids in for about 3-4 months for the winter

Tiwaz · Post by **Tiwaz** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:40 am

I think set timetables are not necessarily best solution.

My family more or less employed idea of "Be responsible" with me. In increasing amount as I grew up.

Instead of trying to micromanage your kids, try to raise them to take responsibility.
If they have a task regarding themselves make them take responsibility (with reason, very young cannot be expected to do so, but around 3rd grade they should start having responsibility).

If they fail, let them feel at least some consequence. And in cases where it hurts them (in this case not physical hurt).
Next time, or third time, they will start remembering that they had to do something.

So, as they learn that their actions have real consequences... They need no micromanaging. They manage themselves.

Really easy when put that way. Far more difficult to put into practice. But common sense prevails.

raamv · Post by **raamv** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:52 pm

IMNSHO, Finnish Culture teaches and instills a lot more responsibility than seen...from first grade onwards..

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