Why was the muslim ok restaurant topic locked?

[biscayne]

I would really like to know why that topic was locked. As far as I know, Finland is a democracy and has free speech, I can understand that the moderators might not want the thing to get sucked into an anti-muslim tirade etc., but locking it???????

I am still in Australia until end of October when I return to Finland (hopefully), and as some of you may know, a large-scale terrorist attack was foiled today by the authorites here. It was planned and about to be implemented by a group of Somali immigrants. The Islamic community both here and in Europe is just not doing itself any favours. And everyone is terrified to say anything. Say what you want about the Pope, Christianity etc., - nothing happens, a few miserable cartoons about Islam gets a fatwa on a whole country? Sorry, but something is off here. And Onkko is correct. Hal al meat is bloody cruelty to animals.

[Karhunkoski]

As far as I know, Finland is a democracy and has free speech

No it doesn't, and neither does Europe. Stop criticising and start accepting "cultual differences", for that is the only path forward.

And the reason why the thread was locked was probably because the OP's question had already been answered.

[TampereOwl]

I would really like to know why that topic was locked. As far as I know, Finland is a democracy and has free speech, I can understand that the moderators might not want the thing to get sucked into an anti-muslim tirade etc., but locking it???????

I am still in Australia until end of October when I return to Finland (hopefully), and as some of you may know, a large-scale terrorist attack was foiled today by the authorites here. It was planned and about to be implemented by a group of Somali immigrants. The Islamic community both here and in Europe is just not doing itself any favours. And everyone is terrified to say anything. Say what you want about the Pope, Christianity etc., - nothing happens, a few miserable cartoons about Islam gets a fatwa on a whole country? Sorry, but something is off here. And Onkko is correct. Hal al meat is bloody cruelty to animals.

I think your second paragraph has answered your own question there, sunshine. That topic was about food and restaurants, and in your own racist little mind you've decided that it is inextricably linked to terrorism.

As for the bit I've bolded.....There are one or two songs on those topics you might want to try singing in certain parts of the UK, if you seriously think there's no terrorism around the subject. Grow up.

[biscayne]

Which would be fine, except that plenty of other topics get dragged on and on long after the initial question has been answered. And asking a few questions or pointing out a few things, doesn't make a person racist.

[Rick1]

You are right Biscayne but not politically correct and when you are not totally left you are very quickly extreme right or rascist. Items are quickly removed here when a certain person does not agree. I once placed a youtube comedyact of two very clear homo's (repeat comedy) and it was removed within minutes (I am not gay but if a man can walk in a dress (moslim) I think one can also dress as a gayman.

I like to see that also some woman do agree that we should live in freedom and not being always correct because some people are very quickly to fear us with death because we do not agree with what they believe.

Biscayne

[Rick1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnwWA7uvXt0

This was the one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWOhbseXIWw&NR=1

And 'free' enterprise

[biscayne]

I HATE political correctness. And find it so amusing that people calling me a racist etc. are themselves foreigners who have CHOSEN to live in Finland, one of the most ethnically and culturally homogenous countries in Europe, therefore ensuring that they themselves are unlikely to have to deal firsthand with the "issues" which mass immigration from groups who do not APPEAR to want to integrate inevitably brings with it. Again, I would point out, that saying something the way it is, does not necessarily make one a racist. The original posting was about Hal al meat. Yes, it is politically incorrect to say so, but it is an incredibly cruel form of animal slaughter. Is it the tradition of the Islamic people? Yes. Does that make it right? No. Should various groups be allowed to import their traditions, no matter what they are, into their "new countries"? No. Why? Female genital mutilation, underage and forced marriages, honor killings, to name but a few. These may be traditions, but they have no place in Finland or in Europe. Many Islamic groups claim that these are "cultural issues" and not directly related to Islam. Fine, but, amazingly enough, they occur ONLY within Islam. Europeans are not anti-muslim, nor am I. What I am, is against the importation into Europe of practices which are offensive to European culture. Persons coming into Europe to avail of the benefits of European life/education/employment market/welfare etc., have chosen to enter European culture and therefore, they should integrate into it. If I go to Saudi Arabia to work, I can't wear a mini-skirt or drive a car. Finland is a fine country, with a long tradition of social liberty. It was the second country in the world after NZ to allow women to vote. The native culture, due to sauna-cultre, accepts the naked body as normal and not exclusively related to sex. I would suggest that it is not racist to ensure that the "requests" of newer groups do not enfringe in any way on the native culture. One example is the women only swimming hours which were provided at the request of the Islamic community, again politically incorrect to say so, but I think that was a huge mistake. They should have been told that in Finland, men and women mingle freely, sauna and swimming included, and that's that. (I know there was women only swimming in Yrjonkatu always, but that was for FKK/nude swimmers), there was something similar with a display of somekind of Pig statues, which were taken down.

[Rick1]

You got that right but as larger the groups will become, the more you will have to obey to their wishes as can be seen in other EU-countries with large foreign populations. When I came here I was amazed that this was not (yet) the case here (because the groups are not that large yet).

[Rick1]

Totally right Biscayne but I have to go to work again to pay my taxes so the greenhats will be able to spend it

[network_engineer]

biscayne, Rick1,



The original poster asking about acceptable restaurants: recommend vegetarian food!

I, for one, am personally TOTALLY against cruelty towards animals and some ways of animal slaughter are just too painful to even think of. Fair enough, go ahead and consume meat, but to torture these animals on top is just distasteful! The argument of traditions also in relation to other practices such as FGM, underage and forced marriages, honour killings, etc. were nicely put. Some of these practices, irrespective of the rationale behind, need to be forbidden.

Some (!) have this weird tendency to demand everything against the local population and culture, the swimming pool issue is a nice example. The way I saw it, the provision forces the women to stay in submission to their men. I doubt if the women themselves would really care if a man were swimming alongside.

Unfortunately, we still have some way(s) to go before we agree that animals, and every living being have some basic rights too - especially against cruelty! Sadly, I've heard of more laws that define how curved bananas and cucumbers ought to be!!!

[Mook]

The argument of traditions in relation to other practices such as FGM, underage and forced marriages, honour killings, etc.

had fsck-all to do with "muslim-OK" restaurants...?

Incidentally, lots of small places will provide halal meals on requests e.g. the pizza place in pikku-houpalahti.

[network_engineer]

Did I miss something? I read the intent quite simply as "should halal meat be considered acceptable in Finland" considering the dreadful treatment meted to the animal being killed. My own view No! No - in Finland, and 'No' in Europe. Those that insist on halal meat, as well as FGM, under-age and forced marriages can chase their "dreams" in the lands that are built on those dreams. You also asked if FGM etc. were relevant in the post. Incidentally, take a look at the number of under-age and forced marriages, and other similar issues coming up around Europe, very prominently, as I read, in the UK.

[Mook]

We have this thing called society. Y'know, which makes laws against things that are unacceptable to the majority. You can consider it how you like, but, Halal meat is legal in Finland, so it's acceptable, right?

Now, maybe you've watched too many controversial documentaries and got some funny ideas.

Also it's interesting that no-one has mentioned Kosher meat, the preparation of whihc is similar. So, Jewish traditions are OK and Muslim ones not? Shurely that's racism?

[skandagupta]

I would really like to know why that topic was locked. As far as I know, Finland is a democracy and has free speech, I can understand that the moderators might not want the thing to get sucked into an anti-muslim tirade etc., but locking it???????

I am still in Australia until end of October when I return to Finland (hopefully), and as some of you may know, a large-scale terrorist attack was foiled today by the authorites here. It was planned and about to be implemented by a group of Somali immigrants. The Islamic community both here and in Europe is just not doing itself any favours. And everyone is terrified to say anything. Say what you want about the Pope, Christianity etc., - nothing happens, a few miserable cartoons about Islam gets a fatwa on a whole country? Sorry, but something is off here. And Onkko is correct. Hal al meat is bloody cruelty to animals.

Correctissimo!

Well, they did it,lest the should declare the notorious fatwa on us.
That`s the way in this wormy world.

Biscayne, Failte gu Finland

[Karhunkoski]

Also it's interesting that no-one has mentioned Kosher meat, the preparation of whihc is similar. So, Jewish traditions are OK and Muslim ones not?

An excellent point Mook, was waiting for someone to raise that, thanks

Now Kosher does also demand that the animal is killed by having its throat cut (and also that you shouldn't eat animals that have themselves been killed by another animal). Now this was all very sensible advice in days gone by, when people were ignorant of food hygiene, food was scarce, and people might be tempted to eat something that wasn't totally "fresh meat". Putting the word of god on the instruction saved many lives. Pretty much in the same way as the instruction to wipe your bum with one hand, but make sure you eat with the other. Oh, and don't forget to wash your genitalia before daily prayers perhaps? All good, solid, sensible advice

But...

The issue I have with both religions isn't based on racism, or hatred, it's based on cruelty to animals. I've been involved with more meat slaughtering than the average joe on this forum. It can be upsetting at the best of times, but even for a hardened, bloodthirsty carnivore like myself, some things done in the name of religion really sicken me. The only thing that I find more repulsive, (and I'm not pointing fingers at anyone on this forum), is those who try to defend these disgusting practices by calling someone who criticised them, a "racist". (I hate racists with a passion).