A serious question about permits

[lou_12]

Firstly, I'll just say I feel like a twat already, so please try and be as nice as possible...

I moved to Finland in Aug 2008 as an Au-pair, I was 18, never moved away from home etc etc. I went with the father of the family to the magistraatti and got my paper with the purple stamp and my social security number. The father of the family said this was my residence permit and was all I needed to legally be registered in Finland, I was completely clueless to everything and believed him...

Since then i've opened a bank account, moved out of the au-pair house, rented an apartment on my own and been in full time employment for the last 7 months, recently i've been thinking about my 'residence permit' and with talking to others at work and foreign friends who've been talking about long waits and queues at the police station I've been thinking why haven't I had to do that.

So today I've spent the last 3 hours surfing through police websites and the magistrates website to realise I've not actually got a residence permit here in Finland and my 3 month living without registering is well and truly up by 15 months. So now i'm panicking thinking what on earth do I do?

I read that a guy was in the same position about 6 months ago on this forum and he got fined 200 euros. So do I just go to the police station and tell them all this and hope they're understanding? Or is there something else I can do to sort out this mess?

I feel like a complete idiot for not realising sooner but to be honest if someone (especially a Finn) tells you, you have a residence permit and you know nothing about the forms and system, and you're able to get a job, pay tax and rent an apartment why would you question it? I had no reason to.

Also, and this might seem a little off the bat, but I'm worried so I'll ask anyways...
What is the WORST 'punishment' I can receive, basically I'm asking can I be sent back to Britain, or is the worst think that can happen a fine? Also will this affect my employment at all? I'm paying tax and social security etc even though I'm not covered by Kela but can I be fired at all because Ive been working without a permit?

Any info would be great, just to calm my nerves as I'm pretty much freaking out right now, and I'm expecting to get a lot of laughs from you guys for my pure idiocy.

[AldenG]

Can you copy for us what it says without details that would identify you?

Does it show a second date in addition to the date you got it?

[rinso]

got my paper with the purple stamp and my social security number.

Strange, but if you really have the magic number, you are in the computer and are considered a "resident".
It might be valid for one or two years, so you have to deal with the situation quickly.
Try Migri to figure out what your status really is.
If there was an administrative screw up, nobody in this forum can give the final answer.

It also depends on where you registered.
Long time ago I only went to the police station in nowheremäki, filled in a bunch of forms and got my RP and ssn. No running around and visiting different locations and so.

[dave071061]

I think the first question we should clear up is what passport do you hold.
If you hold an EU passport then you could be in a state about nothing

[lou_12]

I have an EU passport, I'm British.

Basically the paper is headed with 'Extract from the population information system in Finland'
Then it lists my surname, forenames, ssn, marital status, where i'm from, d-o-b etc etc etc

There's a place for 'permanent address' but it says 'no information in the population information system' and then it lists my temporary address as the one I was the au-pair in.

Then there's a very random paragraph saying 'Residence code, including real estate and building code, is shown as follows: Municipal - location area - group - unit - control sign - building number - letter of the apartment - number of the apartment - division letter.' And I have no idea what that means or who it's for. Then there's a paragraph explaining what the population information system is when it was founded etc.

Then it ays issued by and gives the address of espoon maistraatti, then a place and date, In Espoo 04 Aug 2008 and then the secretaries name who processed it.

That confused me and I know what I'm on about so here's a picture http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/4222/permit.jpg


I called my boyfriend's dad this morning who's a lawyer and he said that I have to make an appointment with the police, arrange a time and date etc and just explain everything and the worst they can do is a fine apparently, so I just have to chalk it up as experience and pay the fine I guess.

[AldenG]

Is the fine just for not keeping your address up to date? As an EU citizen, you don't need a residence permit, do you? Some EU cits have trouble getting registered in Finland, but you were fortunate enough to glide right through that process from the start.

[tizlit]

Call Malmi Immigration Police straight away, check their various phone numbers on the website. They should be able to give you a reply (I would call several numbers as the answer somehow varies depending with who you talk to ) .

[Upphew]

Is the fine just for not keeping your address up to date? As an EU citizen, you don't need a residence permit, do you? Some EU cits have trouble getting registered in Finland, but you were fortunate enough to glide right through that process from the start.

Dunno about fines, but my biggest fear would be missing some official post (eg tax related) that is sent to the official address.

[lou_12]

I managed to change my address on the population register when I moved and have basically been able to live as though I was a fully registered person for the last 18 months, hence why I never questioned any of my paperwork. All my mail is delivered to the address I currently live at, and all my important mail such as tax card, bills etc come to this address and are registered to me living at this address.

I think the fine would be for not getting a residency permit after my 3 month 'holiday' period had expired, I've been reading around and on some websites it says being a member of the EU, I don't necessarily need a residence permit to be here, but if that was the case then why would there be the 3 month no-need for-registering period and then after that you need to register?

Then comes the question, of why hasn't it been picked up on? How have I been able to open a bank account, rent an apartment, phone contract etc etc and it hasn't appeared on anybodies computer that I technically haven't got a permit to be here? It's so confusing

[dave071061]

I am fairly sure you are getting worried about nothing:

If you have your Social Security Number, and you are registered on the population register and you have a tax card I would say you are fully registered and as an EU citizan you don´t have to do anything else.

[CarmenfromTexas]

I am a US citizen and I went 5 days over my 3 month tourist visa. When I applied for residency, I was told I would only get a verbal warning for missing the expiration date of my tourist visa. My best guess is since you're an EU citizen, I would think you would get less or at worst the same - a verbal warning.

Call Malmi on Monday and get this out of the way so it won't continue to worry you. The not knowing is what feels so awful. Good luck.

[Rip]

No need to panic. EU citizens do not need residence permits. You ought to have registered at the local police within three months of your arrival, but even in the worst case, I do not see you should expect more than a fairly small fine.

It seems to me that your situation is essentially the same as this one, earlier discussed here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=38052

[lou_12]

Yeah thanks Rip, that was a post I found yesterday which helped calm the worry a bit.

I went to see the family I was an au pair for today and the father said, as far as he knows, I don't need a residence permit as I'm EU, he's gonna give them a call tomorrow and ask what he should do with the next au pair who is coming in March, and I'm gonna call and ask about what I should do and we'll see how much of conflicting answers we get.

[Pursuivant]

You basically would need to be "domiciled permanent" in where you live at - and to do that you need to show the "EU paper"... so the only "snag" is that if you go to the magistrate and ask are you a "tilapäinen" or "vakinainen" as that effects your getting a KELA card ... and if you have the work contract and bank slips to show you can get the "EU paper" from the police... yeah you "should have" but its not so bad with EU people no more.

[Tiwaz]

Yeah thanks Rip, that was a post I found yesterday which helped calm the worry a bit.

I went to see the family I was an au pair for today and the father said, as far as he knows, I don't need a residence permit as I'm EU, he's gonna give them a call tomorrow and ask what he should do with the next au pair who is coming in March, and I'm gonna call and ask about what I should do and we'll see how much of conflicting answers we get.

Well, I am guessing he managed to get your EU registration sorted out. That took place within 3 months of arrival so you should be, by my less than professional estimate, well covered.

As Purs has said, your status is one which is unclear and your failure to notify your address changes is bad but not something they would punish for too harshly. Just don't try to do anything "clever" to get out of fines if that is the risk. It just puts you in bigger mess, and it is unlikely you get any.

I know when I went to study I did not bother changing my address, my mail kept going to my parents and that was that. Benefit of course being that when I moved to new student apartment there was no fuss of address changes.

Of course it was strictly speaking illegal, since army wants to know where asses of their reservists are mostly present but I was confident my parents would inform me should there be sudden need for me to be returned to active service.