predicative

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garoowood
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Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:36 pm

predicative

Post by garoowood » Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:21 pm

Digitan asiakkaita ovat tv- ja radioyhtiöt sekä mobiili- ja laajakaistaoperaattorit.

I am wondering why they wrote it this way which is quite misleading. Is there a reason why they put predicative in front but subject after the predicate verb.

In the grammar book, it says "The subject is always in the norminative case if there is an object in the clause.". But "Kolme poikaa pelasi jalkapalloa kentällä." and "70% suomalaisista naisista tekee työtä kodin ulkopuolella." both have objects, and the subject is in partitive.
I could bethink of clauses like:
Kaksi poikaa katsoo televisiota. Kolme meistä puhuu suomea.



predicative

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ajl
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Re: predicative

Post by ajl » Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:53 pm

Are you overthinking this? Isn't the number itself considered nominative here?
The words in the partitive are just because of the number.

edit... I'm just commenting on the followup sentances, nothing about the first question...
moving is in the bad <-> crazy continuum

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Pursuivant
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Re: predicative

Post by Pursuivant » Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:57 pm

I am wondering why they wrote it this way which is quite misleading.
The horse is on the street.
On the street is a horse.

Which horse is mislead?
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."

garoowood
Posts: 173
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:36 pm

Re: predicative

Post by garoowood » Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:19 pm

This way looks better for me:
Tv- ja radioyhtiöt sekä mobiili- ja laajakaistaoperaattorit ovat Digitan asiakkaita.

I think Digitan asiakkaita is the predicative, it should be after the predicate verb olla.

EP
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Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2003 7:41 pm

Re: predicative

Post by EP » Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:30 pm

Digitan asiakkaita ovat tv- ja radioyhtiöt sekä mobiili- ja laajakaistaoperaattorit. <---- emphasis is on Digita

Tv- ja radioyhtiöt sekä mobiili- ja laajakaistaoperaattorit ovat Digitan asiakkaita. <---- emphasis is on the clients

Rob A.
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Re: predicative

Post by Rob A. » Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:53 pm

garoowood wrote:This way looks better for me:
Tv- ja radioyhtiöt sekä mobiili- ja laajakaistaoperaattorit ovat Digitan asiakkaita.

I think Digitan asiakkaita is the predicative, it should be after the predicate verb olla.
:lol: I think you are falling into one of the language learner's traps...No one cares how it looks to you or I....this is how native language speakers use their language and they have their reasons for doing this....most of the time it is probably for clarity and emphasis....to show what is the most important part of the statement.

With English, because of the nearly total lack of case endings, the SVO sequence is almost sacred....not so with many other languages.... correct me if I'm wrong, but I think with Chinese languages, because individual words tend to be immutable, SVO is pretty well sacred....

Latin is like Finnish in this regard.... Word order can have quite an impact...the usual word order may be one thing, but a slight shift which won't affect the meaning can have a significant attention-getting impact... :D

Jukka Aho
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Re: predicative

Post by Jukka Aho » Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:16 pm

EP wrote:Digitan asiakkaita ovat tv- ja radioyhtiöt sekä mobiili- ja laajakaistaoperaattorit. <---- emphasis is on Digita

Tv- ja radioyhtiöt sekä mobiili- ja laajakaistaoperaattorit ovat Digitan asiakkaita. <---- emphasis is on the clients
I think the latter would even appear to suggest some kind of a general rule. “(The set of all known) TV and radio companies, as well as mobile phone and broadband operators, are, as a rule, Digita’s customers.”
znark

Rob A.
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Re: predicative

Post by Rob A. » Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:27 pm

Rob A. wrote:Latin is like Finnish in this regard.... Word order can have quite an impact...the usual word order may be one thing, but a slight shift which won't affect the meaning can have a significant attention-getting impact... :D
I was thinking a bit about that famous statement attributed to Caesar during the course of one of the most critical events in European history.... Wiktionary explains it better than I can....:D

Alea iacta est.... this, or Alea est iacta, is what you would usually expect in Latin ...Caesar, though of course, we don't really know what he actually said, apparently said, Iacta alea est, which, if true, would have been quite emphatic.....:D :D

garoowood
Posts: 173
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Re: predicative

Post by garoowood » Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:30 pm

Rob A. wrote:
garoowood wrote:This way looks better for me:
Tv- ja radioyhtiöt sekä mobiili- ja laajakaistaoperaattorit ovat Digitan asiakkaita.

I think Digitan asiakkaita is the predicative, it should be after the predicate verb olla.
:lol: I think you are falling into one of the language learner's traps...No one cares how it looks to you or I....this is how native language speakers use their language and they have their reasons for doing this....most of the time it is probably for clarity and emphasis....to show what is the most important part of the statement.

With English, because of the nearly total lack of case endings, the SVO sequence is almost sacred....not so with many other languages.... correct me if I'm wrong, but I think with Chinese languages, because individual words tend to be immutable, SVO is pretty well sacred....

Latin is like Finnish in this regard.... Word order can have quite an impact...the usual word order may be one thing, but a slight shift which won't affect the meaning can have a significant attention-getting impact... :D
Yes, I did. It is still a bit hard for me to think in Finnish way. I would easily put the subject first without thinking about the emphasis. So when I see a partitive case in front, I feel weird.


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