olla olevinaan?

[j.petsku]

Hi all,

I've been reading through some of the past linguistic snarls this forum has worked through (with much pleasure) and thought I'd register in the hopes of clearing up some of my own misunderstandings. Thanks in advance for any help, and for all the help the past posts have been! Here's one that I just happened to read in a kid's book this evening. A quick synopsis (as quick as I could make it...sorry):

Papa Bear is putting Nalle Kalle to bed. He gives him a piggy back ride into the bedroom, but Nalle doesn't want to go to sleep, so he stays on Papa's shoulders. Papa pretends to go to sleep. (I think..."Kas, hän taisi ihan torkahtaa.") Ja sitten...

"Taisin melkein nukahtaa," han sanoo ja on heräävinään.

Does this mean that he pretended to wake up? Is there any other possible translation? Then at the bottom of the page, it says:

"Isä Nalle ei ole kuulevinaan tirskuntaa korvansa juuressa."

"Papa Bear pretended not to hear the giggling at the base of his ear?"

I'm not sure, frankly, how to use "olla olevinaan" as a form of "to pretend" in a sentence, and never knew that it might apply to verbs other than "olla". Can anyone enlighten me?

[Pursuivant]

- Hei, minä sain suomenkokeesta täydet pisteet!
- Kylläpäs sitä ollaan olevinaan.

--
(policeman approaches a punk loitering on the street)
- Mikäs menninkäinen sinä olet olevinasi?

bonus
--
- Nyt ukot olette hiljaa, lapset on jo nukkumassa.
- Kyllä kulta, me ollaan kuin ei oltaisiinkaan.

[j.petsku]

These are great! Here goes...

- Hei, minä sain suomenkokeesta täydet pisteet!
- Kylläpäs sitä ollaan olevinaan.

- Hey, I got a perfect score on my Finnish test!
- Yeah, it would seem so. (close? What does partitive sitä refer to?)

- Mikäs menninkäinen sinä olet olevinasi?

- What kind of badass are you supposed to be? or maybe something like, - Who do you think you are, anyway?

- Nyt ukot olette hiljaa, lapset on jo nukkumassa.
- Kyllä kulta, me ollaan kuin ei oltaisiinkaan.

- Be quiet you old codgers, the children are asleep.
- Yes, dear, you won't hear a peep from us (It's like we're not even here)?

Interesting examples! What I'm gathering, from these and other ones, is that "olla olevinaan" isn't really used as a synonym for teeskennellä so much? Yet another example from the Nalle Kalle story is this:

"Olin ihan kuulevinani Nalle Kallen nauravan," sanoo Isä Nalle.

But this time he's not pretending at all. "To seem" would appear to be a better equivalent. "I seem to hear Nalle Kalle laughing." Am I on the right track? Can any verb be applied to this structure?

[Pursuivant]

These are great! Here goes...

- Hei, minä sain suomenkokeesta täydet pisteet!
- Kylläpäs sitä ollaan olevinaan.

- Hey, I got a perfect score on my Finnish test!
- Yeah, it would seem so. (close? What does partitive sitä refer to?)

No lollipop...

- I got full points in my Finnish test!
- We're being as if we were something, aren't we? ( something like a sarcastic "making mountain out of a molehill" retort)

- Mikäs menninkäinen sinä olet olevinasi?

- What kind of badass are you supposed to be? or maybe something like, - Who do you think you are, anyway?

More or less.... tha "menninkäinen" (forest gnome) refers to the old joke
Pikkulapsi näkee metrossa punkkarin.
Äiti, äiti, missä ton peikon häntä on?

- Nyt ukot olette hiljaa, lapset on jo nukkumassa.
- Kyllä kulta, me ollaan kuin ei oltaisiinkaan.

- Be quiet you old codgers, the children are asleep.
- Yes, dear, you won't hear a peep from us (It's like we're not even here)?

yes... now "ollaan vaan ollakseen"

But this time he's not pretending at all. "To seem" would appear to be a better equivalent. "I seem to hear Nalle Kalle laughing."

It seems as if I was hearing NK laugh...

Say you get pulled over by pc plod
- Olin eilen näkevinäni teidän ajavan ajovalot pimeänä.

So its an indirect way of stating the fact, instead of I SAW YOU its It might have been I saw you but thats not stating a fact but a likeness

[j.petsku]

Aha...thanks! So...

- Olin eilen näkevinäni teidän ajavan ajovalot pimeänä.

"Aren't you the guy I saw running a red yesterday?"

He's pretty sure, but not sure enough to give a ticket. ?

- Kylläpäs sitä ollaan olevinaan.

Maybe an equivalent English saying would be: "Well, aren't you special."

Olla ollakseen...interesting. There seem to be a lot of sayings in Finnish for "putting on an air," etc. Oh...and you gotta love the verb diivailla!

[sammy]

Olla ollakseen...interesting. There seem to be a lot of sayings in Finnish for "putting on an air," etc. Oh...and you gotta love the verb diivailla!

Leveillä or elvistellä used to be heard frequently... not sure if these are used by the youth today But where does brassailla come from?

[EP]

But where does brassailla come from?

Finlands svensk.

[Pursuivant]

"Aren't you the guy I saw running a red yesterday?"

He's pretty sure, but not sure enough to give a ticket. ?

No, he is absolutely sure, but he was looking with his blind eye that day, and giving a hint.

[Rob A.]

Aha...thanks! So...

- Olin eilen näkevinäni teidän ajavan ajovalot pimeänä.

"Aren't you the guy I saw running a red yesterday?"

So how are you getting this translation????.... What am I missing???

Literally this seems to say:
"I was yesterday at-my-seeing you driving headlights at-dark."

And, in normal English:
"Yesterday I was seeing you driving with your headlights off."

There must be a better translation, though. How is this being turned into a question? And how does the word, näkevinäni, carry its apparent sense of tentativeness?.....I assume the essive ending must impart this. The cop was "in the role of seeing" you driving without your headlights on. ...... ????

- Kylläpäs sitä ollaan olevinaan.

Maybe an equivalent English saying would be: "Well, aren't you special."

Olla ollakseen...interesting. There seem to be a lot of sayings in Finnish for "putting on an air," etc. Oh...and you gotta love the verb diivailla!

It seems that the verbal phrase, olla olevinaan, is rather difficult to parse...."to be as-his-being.".... You sort of get the idea ...presumably from the essive ending.... that a "role" is being played which may not necessarily be reality.... I suppose such useage gets easier to grasp after more familiarity the essive case...

Oh ...and why does basic active prsent participle word stem, oleva appear to shift to the plural form with the essive case ending....???...nothing else seems to be in the plural???...

[Pursuivant]

And how does the word, näkevinäni, carry its apparent sense of tentativeness?

its more as-if-I-was-seeing

Olin menevinäni kauppaan, mutta meninkin pubiin.

basically its a way to conveyy tentativity without using auxiliary verbs
Luulin nähneeni ufon mutta näinkin lokin. = Olin näkevinäni ufon, mutta näinkin lokin.

Olin päästävinäni tuhnun, mutta lurahtikin kauhallinen

[j.petsku]

"Aren't you the guy I saw running a red yesterday?"


So how are you getting this translation????.... What am I missing???

Doh! Sorry, haste makes waste... So, my suggestion was supposed to be,

"Aren't you the guy I saw driving with his lights out yesterday?"

I'm just trying to understand the tone of this näkevinäni form...so I was thinking maybe it would it be something like a question, with some uncertainty attached to it. I know it's not the same as "Etkö ollut..." but maybe a similar tone as "Taisit olla"?? In the example with Nalle:

"Olin ihan kuulevinani Nalle Kallen nauravan," sanoo Isä Nalle.

Isä is just joking around, pretending not to know Kalle is on his shoulders. So the appropriate light-hearted translation would seem to be, "Is that Kalle I hear laughing?" or "I seem to have heard some laughing." Does this work. Maybe context weighs in really heavily in interpreting this construction?

[j.petsku]

Olin päästävinäni tuhnun, mutta lurahtikin kauhallinen

I THINK I know what that means...which probably means I don't. Either way, it stinks.

So: "Olin näkevinäni kissimirrin."

I tought I taw a putty-tat?

[Upphew]

So: "Olin näkevinäni kissimirrin."

Mutta se olikin majava?