Yep.. Another Brit looking for work!

[scottherlock]

Hi

Same old story I guess...
Moved here 2 and a half months ago from Brighton, UK, with my fiancé (Yep, shes Finnish), we managed to get a flat and she got a job so at least we can eat!

I have been reading posts like this every day and know that without knowing the Finnish language it will be very difficult to find work and wont make it easier with just a secondary school education.

I'll work damn hard in anything I can find, just need to get out, meet people and earn money because I am worried if I carry on living my life in the flat it wont be long until its all too much and I want to go back... I can definitely see myself settling here but need to restore my pride and life by working again so if anyone knows of anyone hiring in the Helsinki area please let me know.

Thanks for any input! Its all helpful.

Scott

[Rosamunda]

Have you thought about teaching English? You seem to be more than capable of writing error-free English (which is more than can be said for a lot of native speakers on here) so you could try contacting language schools like EF and AAC Global to see if they are hiring. They always say they want graduates but the pay and the conditions are so bad they are happy to take on anyone who can hold a conversation and/or spell.

You won't get full-time work but you might get enough to stop you going insane during the winter. If the students give you good feedback, you'll be given more hours. That's how it works.

[rinso]

no Finnish skills
just a secondary school education
but need to restore my pride

You guessed it, it will be extremely difficult.
No Finnish and no specialized training/education, will leave you with hardly any options.
If you can find something, it will be a job in which you can hardly find pride in.
Better to improve your chances by studying Finnish and maybe some other skills.
If you can get a vocational certificate from a Finnish school, you can at least show something in your CV.

[Pursuivant]

Have you thought about teaching English? You seem to be more than capable of writing error-free English (which is more than can be said for a lot of

people bouncing in with a TEFL certificate

Dont have official ticket for Painting

Painting & Decorating... well... there are these "trade courses" - have you gone to the jobcentre yet to get your integration scheme fixed? At least the course will keep you out of mischief and maybe get you know colors in Finnish, so you don't accidentally paint the ceiling beige.

[Upphew]

At least the course will keep you out of mischief and maybe get you know colors in Finnish, so you don't accidentally paint the ceiling beige.

Dunno if I have told this before, but...

Mom wanted the bedroom's walls repainted, slightly rose tinted white. Dad went and ordered bucket of paint and went on to painted about quarter of the walls, then mom came home and expressed slight dissatisfaction about the colour that was basically black. The machine had malfunctioned and @#$% up the toning of the paint and dad had double checked that the colour was correct on the label, so who cares what it looks like on the walls!

[AldenG]

Have you thought about teaching English? You seem to be more than capable of writing error-free English (which is more than can be said for a lot of native speakers on here) so you could try contacting language schools like EF and AAC Global to see if they are hiring. They always say they want graduates but the pay and the conditions are so bad they are happy to take on anyone who can hold a conversation and/or spell.

You won't get full-time work but you might get enough to stop you going insane during the winter. If the students give you good feedback, you'll be given more hours. That's how it works.

I'm confused. Is it possible for him to do this without certification? I had gotten a different impression from other posts to people who have asked this in the past.

[Rosamunda]

Yes, there are plenty of native English speakers working for private language schools giving conversation classes to individuals and groups inside large companies. Some "teachers" take the quickie on-line TEFL cert before they arrive but not all. The bigger schools are so focused on their margins, I'm not sure they are too bothered about qualifications.

It's sad but the whole TEFL industry is totally unregulated and since the large corporations outsource all their training requirements nowadays, they are no longer in control of the quality of the services being provided.

The way big companies negotiate their service level agreements with providers (including language schools) is silly.

[AldenG]

What about those who teach Finnish to immigrants? Are they good these days? Are they regulated?

[sammy]

I'm confused. Is it possible for him to do this without certification? I had gotten a different impression from other posts to people who have asked this in the past.

In addition to what penelope said, the regulations concerning teaching English at schools (as a qualified language/class teacher - as far as I know, TEFL does not equal "qualified teacher status" (QTS) in the UK either) are different from the requirements that private language schools & companies might have.

[sammy]

What about those who teach Finnish to immigrants? Are they good these days? Are they regulated?

Yes there are some regulations... here you'll find some basic info on the regulations concerning different "levels" of Finnish as second language teaching... http://s2opettajat.yhdistysavain.fi/s2-opettajaksi/ As you can see, the regulations are relatively strict when concerning teaching Finnish as a second language to immigrants at school, but when it comes to adult education type of teaching it's a bit more relaxed. They still "hope" that the teacher has a Master's + pedagogical studies or equivalent skills, though. Probably the FNBE has the whole official epistle somewhere on their pages, but I can't be ar$ed just now to seek it out

Good or not good... perhaps that depends. As we all must know from our own schooldays, not all qualified teachers are good, and not all good teachers are qualified.

[Bubba Elvis XIV]

@ Penelope and AldenG...

Yes, the industry is really a joke and more so in Finland than in a lot of countries. I have been looking at jobs abroad for the past few months and having CELTA or better is a priority in most language schools. But not here...Places in the Mid-East and Oil companies in Libya might not even look at a CELTA.

Ok, we don't have the cowboys here that other places do (Spain?) and you won't have mafia sorts knocking on your door telling you the streets aren't safe at night (RF / Ukraine)...but the language schools are quite badly run, unprofessional and have very low standards. You're lucky if the gits will even buy some new books for the office...even luckier if you have some good books in the office from the 80s.

It's all about the profits...

TEFL is very much about entertaining business people during an extended coffee break. So if you can hold it together for 90 mins, you can get work. But you will be given the conversation classes or groups/students that are known to be very easy to work with...it's a starting point though.

It depends a lot on how well the industry is doing. When there's a lot of work, you'll find the companies will employ anyone, when work isn't so good...then it's tougher and they expect a bit more.

Do I appear to be p!ssed off?

[Rosamunda]

As you can see, the regulations are relatively strict when concerning teaching Finnish as a second language to immigrants at school....

Oh yeah? Then how come my kids are still struggling after 8 years of FFL (including Kesälukio and various other clutching at straws arrangements) and how come they have never had an independent level test or assessment and how come they have never been given an individualised programme and why are they only graded based on Finnish Second Language criteria and not on their own progress????

And the other rant (while I'm at it) why are there no "relatively strict regulations" concerning the English-language skills of (Finnish) teachers who teach in English (in schools, colleges and universities)?

[sammy]

As you can see, the regulations are relatively strict when concerning teaching Finnish as a second language to immigrants at school....

Oh yeah? Then how come my kids are still struggling after 8 years of FFL (including Kesälukio and various other clutching at straws arrangements) and how come they have never had an independent level test or assessment and how come they have never been given an individualised programme and why are they only graded based on Finnish Second Language criteria and not on their own progress????

And the other rant (while I'm at it) why are there no "relatively strict regulations" concerning the English-language skills of (Finnish) teachers who teach in English (in schools, colleges and universities)?

Why your kids are still struggling, I would not start guessing.

Cool down I was merely referring to the regulations concerning the qualifications of the teachers, penelope. Not to the "reality" that the pupils may eventually experience when it comes to the actual teaching and learning. As said, a formally qualified teacher may not always necessarily be a good teacher In principle, however, the school teachers are required to have a Master's etc etc.

The same goes for (Finnish) English language teachers. But some of those who teach in English... I agree, some might really profit from a compulsory test in English. It varies of course, but yes - even some university teachers can be quite tuutiitutöötituu

[Rosamunda]

Cool down I was merely referring to the regulations concerning the qualifications of the teachers, penelope. Not to the "reality" that the pupils may eventually experience when it comes to the actual teaching and learning. As said, a formally qualified teacher may not always necessarily be a good teacher In principle, however, the school teachers are required to have a Master's etc etc.

So where do they go to get a Master's in Finnish Foreign Language? As far as I know this does not exist. Until recently there were no teacher training courses whatsoever for FFL. Most of my kids' FFL teachers have been Finnish mother tongue teachers. They have no training in teaching foreign languages. A French/Spanish/Russian teacher would do a better job (IMO) than an äidenkieli teacher. I have been quite shocked at some of the teaching methods (rote learning of seemingly random vocabulary of non-inflected words outside any context).

I think the Min of Ed should take a serious look at the FFL framework. ALL immigrant children (not just the ones on the migrant programmes) should have an annual independent assessment and have a personalised language proficiency programme drawn up with quantifiable goals and dedicated resources which is reviewed every year. It's way overdue.

[AldenG]

Can the problem even be solved by regulation or other governmental action?

Maybe examples of excellence (as shown by student results) would be more powerfully transformative -- if such could be found.

I think the U.S. has a lot of overqualified, under-performing teachers in the public schools, so this is not something I attribute to Finnish/European-style bureaucracy. In fact, while there may be differences in overall levels of competence, I think this is where the differences in governmental approach are the smallest between our systems. U.S. and Finnish schools both appear to be highly credential-focused to the near-exclusion of any other metrics. The differences in outcomes (which mostly favor the Finnish system) might be more attributable to parental attitudes and level of knowledge than to anything about the teaching.

I don't know how one creates excellence in large-scale endeavors, nor even whether it is possible at all. But I do think that attempting to do it by rigid emphasis on formal credentials has been amply demonstrated a failure. Examination of the credentials appears to become a substitute for examination of aptitude or performance.