Prices in Finland

[Felidae]

Here in Finland people are being ripped off. Taxes after taxes, purchasing power is low and cost of living is very high. Practically no competition between S- and K-chains, very little variation in stores and everything that is a bit "special" (in Finnish standards) costs 10 times more. Of course ordering abroad is an option for other than daily groceries, but still I think it should be easier to get the stuff you need. As a Finn I am of course used to it, but still I can't help wondering, where is the problem?

How much the shipping costs and taxes and customs here really are? Is it totally impossible to import/sell things here in relatively decent price, or is it just the retailers who take as much profit as they ever can? Or is the government doing the best they can with the regulations and costs, to stop any big player to come here?

Always when in US/Canada I feel like crying, when I see the selection and prices there. Obviously I understand that there are is much more potential customers there than here, but still. And most of the things they don't even deliver here (there is Rahtiputki, of course, but it's one more middle hand again). And many things are cheaper already in UK, no need to go any further. I would love to have Wal-Mart here, or Asda would be more likely, since there are no Wal-Marts in Europe. Or any other big store, that could bring some life to the competition and prices here. Both in groceries, household stuff and clothes. Will the hell freeze over before we can see that happening? Could there be any other solution than "that's how things have always been, just live with it"? Yes, I could move abroad, but there are certain reasons why I would rather stay in Finland. Sorry for the tantrum, this is just bugging me lots (once again).

[Upphew]

Will the hell freeze over before we can see that happening?

Already frozen: Lordi

Could there be any other solution than "that's how things have always been, just live with it"? Yes, I could move abroad, but there are certain reasons why I would rather stay in Finland. Sorry for the tantrum, this is just bugging me lots (once again).

Find a nice K-Shopkeeper and convince him/her to show the books. There you should see where the money goes. Groceries are business (at least the big chains/stores are), they try to make maximum amount of money.

[FinnGuyHelsinki]

The first step would be to ban all other paid duties from city and state officials. Many of the people deciding upon or preparing market legislation, city planning and construction site allotments are currently also board members of S- or K-groups. After that, to increase competition, issue a limit of e.g. 30% maximum share on any given retailing sector for a single enterprise in an area (e.g. a city). Just thinking about S-group, which has not only retail stores (from clothing to groceries, cars and hardware), but also a bank, petrol stations, hotels, bars and restaurants,... and the list just keeps growing, at one point there was even talk about a power company. For obvious reasons they just about always get the best locations, and somehow also Alko opens a store right next door. In Helsinki city center one can see how widespread it is, just about every other bar or restaurant is part of S-group. If not yet an outright monopoly, then at least a form of organized legalized crime.

[MikeD]

The first step would be to ban all other paid duties from city and state officials. Many of the people deciding upon or preparing market legislation, city planning and construction site allotments are currently also board members of S- or K-groups. After that, to increase competition, issue a limit of e.g. 30% maximum share on any given retailing sector for a single enterprise in an area (e.g. a city). Just thinking about S-group, which has not only retail stores (from clothing to groceries, cars and hardware), but also a bank, petrol stations, hotels, bars and restaurants,... and the list just keeps growing, at one point there was even talk about a power company. For obvious reasons they just about always get the best locations, and somehow also Alko opens a store right next door. In Helsinki city center one can see how widespread it is, just about every other bar or restaurant is part of S-group. If not yet an outright monopoly, then at least a form of organized legalized crime.

Or better yet, just let people choose where they shop.

[Felidae]

Upphew: I highly doubt that any shopkeeper wants to show their books lol Am sure there must be some good profit, though. Would not want to own a grocery store necessarily, just would love to see some proper competition here.

The first step would be to ban all other paid duties from city and state officials. Many of the people deciding upon or preparing market legislation, city planning and construction site allotments are currently also board members of S- or K-groups. After that, to increase competition, issue a limit of e.g. 30% maximum share on any given retailing sector for a single enterprise in an area (e.g. a city).

This is so true. I can't believe that even though we have been in EU for years now, the situation is still the same. I doubt it will be changing any time soon, because the ones who could change the laws, would be losing their power and profit. I am very tempted to open up a store that sells imported goods, just to see if it is possible to sell goods with relatively low prices (compared to current situation) and still make a decent living. Unfortunately can't afford to do that...Would love to see some calculations, though.

[rinso]

Obviously I understand that there are is much more potential customers there than here,

That is one of the main reasons.
Selling price is not purely based on purchase price + shipping + costs, but on the revenues he has to make to maintain a living.
With few customers his margins have to be higher.
And don't forget that a lot of the costs for the chains go in supplying rural areas, but without much revenue.

[Karhunkoski]

One part is of course the small market, another the low population density, but at least some part is Finnish mentality, which is passive and accepting. That's not a criticism, it just is so. There are even some Finnish companies who make much better margins in their home market than they do in foreign markets. Work that one out

[Rip]

What have listed so fart: Low competition, high taxes, low population density (high transportation cost ans smaller sales). As may have been noticed by people also real estate is pretty expensive at least in the capital region. I think we also have higher salaries at low range (many of the people working in a supermarket) which increases the costs as well.

[Rosamunda]

Is S-Group's market share in Finland any bigger than Tesco's in the UK?

What S-Group seems to be good at is relationship marketing. S-Group cardholders feel like they "belong" and that S-Group will look after them. There is a huge brand loyalty that seems even stronger than simple pricing issues. I'm sure a lot of S-Group customers don't even compare prices between different stores. They feel warm, cosy and comfortable shopping at S-Group and even if Tesco/whoever did turn up they probably wouldn't turn their backs on S-Group.

I'm inclined to think that the likes of Tesco have done their homework (they certainly hit Hungary by storm in the late 1990s) and figured out that Finland and the Baltics aren't worth the hassle. Otherwise, they would be here by now, no?

And... I don't think prices are ALWAYS more expensive in Finland. Yes, some things are (often explained by VAT rates eg VAT is 0% on most foods in the UK, 0% on books, 0% on children's clothes etc). Last week I hosted three students from the UK who were on a teacher training placement in Helsinki, and they had spent the weekend shopping in Helsinki and didn't think it was any more expensive than the UK (Birmingham area, Reading area). Comparing prices here with France, the gap has certainly closed since we have been in Finland. Ten years ago my kids could get a haircut in France for 7e while we were paying 15e (if not more) in Finland. Now a haircut in France costs pretty much the same as here. And food prices are not so different if you compare similar products.

I think there are issues but it's the range rather than the prices which annoys me most.

[Pursuivant]

Dunno, havent really calculated my grocery bill, but I think its halved since moving to the UK.

[Upphew]

Dunno, havent really calculated my grocery bill, but I think its halved since moving to the UK.

So much cheaper beer?!?

[Felidae]

Dunno, havent really calculated my grocery bill, but I think its halved since moving to the UK.

True, my friend told me the other night, that their grocery bill is about £250-300 and there are six people in the family, four of them adults. I wish I had the time and good enough memory to compare what costs how much, and where it's 20 cents cheaper, but I don't. Of course I keep on eye the discounts, but it would take hours to run around the city to pick one thing somewhere and another from somewhere else, every single time.

What have listed so fart: Low competition, high taxes, low population density (high transportation cost ans smaller sales). As may have been noticed by people also real estate is pretty expensive at least in the capital region.

I read somewhere by someone working with logistics, that shipping the same load from Germany to Helsinki is cheaper than about 100 km from Helsinki to the end destination. Also you can get goods from Germany delivered to your home door cheaper than buying it here in Finland, and the shippig price is separated there, so I doubt the shipping can be that big of a deal, as they say it is.

For example Paul Mitchell Tea Tree shampoo, I bought it from NY for about $11, here it costs about 25 euros. Price is triple here. Yes, it is US brand, but still. Coffee Mate 500g in UK costs about £3.20, here you pay 8,90 euros for 425g.

Also the variation is poor, thats true. Goes with clothers, household stuff, furniture...you name it. And yes, the power of K- and especially S-chain can't be good for people here, there is no real competition at all. We would need here at least one, preferably two or three big players, like Wal-Mart, Carrefour or Tesco. And for example Bed, Bath & Beyond would be great here, too. Then it would be interesting to see the price development.

[Upphew]

For example Paul Mitchell Tea Tree shampoo, I bought it from NY for about $11, here it costs about 25 euros. Price is triple here. Yes, it is US brand, but still. Coffee Mate 500g in UK costs about £3.20, here you pay 8,90 euros for 425g.

How much is salmiakki in UK? How much is Linna shampoo in NY? The demand is probably similar.

Also the variation is poor, thats true. Goes with clothers, household stuff, furniture...you name it. And yes, the power of K- and especially S-chain can't be good for people here, there is no real competition at all. We would need here at least one, preferably two or three big players, like Wal-Mart, Carrefour or Tesco. And for example Bed, Bath & Beyond would be great here, too. Then it would be interesting to see the price development.

Shame that the Lidl is Ky, it certainly would be nice to see how they do.

[ajdias]

at least some part is Finnish mentality, which is passive and accepting.

I think that is one of the main factors. You can go through Lidl own products and compare their prices for the same product in Finland and central Europe - you can even limit the comparison to those with similar costs of living. Lidl knows how much of a discount is enough to attract buyers to their shops, they'll offer the least to maximize their revenues.

The first step would be to ban all other paid duties from city and state officials. Many of the people deciding upon or preparing market legislation, city planning and construction site allotments are currently also board members of S- or K-groups.
(...)
Just thinking about S-group, which has not only retail stores (from clothing to groceries, cars and hardware), but also a bank, petrol stations, hotels, bars and restaurants,... and the list just keeps growing, at one point there was even talk about a power company. For obvious reasons they just about always get the best locations, and somehow also Alko opens a store right next door.

I heard the same from a mate of mine. Would be interesting to see some solid data (like how many people from City X sit on the board/have paid gigs with Group X.)

[Rosamunda]

S-Group is a bit different. My understanding is that it isn't a limited company as such but operates more like a cooperative which means the decision making process is completely different to a public limited company. That makes comparisons difficult and competition almost impossible. But it doesn't mean that there is anything illegal going on.