2 kids under 10, home alone for 3 days!

oompah18 · Post by **oompah18** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:38 pm

A 9yr old, school friend of my 8 yr old has turned up on our doorstep at 7am the past 3 days, & asked for breakfast! He doesn´t say much, but looked miserable and tired, and then off he went with my lad. Yesterday he came after school, but we were just all going out. Today he appeared after school, his inappropriate winter wear totally soaked through, he said he was hungry & tired & could he stay till his father came home again. Turns out he and his 8yr old sis have been home alone, without money, food or heating for the past 3 days, & it also happens at weekends he says. His sis is now staying with a friend and he doesn´t want to go home alone. (They live in a v rural area, not many neighbours. Parents have divorced & dad has new girlfriend, not living there permanently.) His teacher doesn´t know that they are alone right now, he says. Anyway, I fed him & he slept a long time, & he went home at dusk. Poor things! As a mother, I want to help, but who should I contact? His sister is in the same class as my son, should I say anything? I don´t want to cause any hassle for anyone, but I don´t know what to do.... contact their teachers or ask for advice at the Neuvola or phone some social service or what? Or just stay out of it, even though it upsets me? As a Brit in the UK, I would poke my nose in immediately & contact the SS, but what is the Finnish way?
Allie

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Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:20 am

In the UK it is still, I believe, illegal to leave children home alone at that age. But, I don't think there is a law like this in Finland.

I would probably mention it to the school, or ask advice from a neighbour. I really don't understand why people do this. There is no excuse since associations like the MLL are available to give support to parents if necessary. There were a couple of kids who would turn up regularly and hang around at our place, especially at weekends. Sometimes they stayed for 10-12 hours. It was only recently I found out the father was alcoholic and violent. The kids never said a thing. They were actually too scared to go home... I can't begin to imagine how awful that must be for a child.

edit: No, there is no law about the minimum age in the UK http://www.nspcc.org.uk/help-and-advice ... 72908.html

mvgrogan · Post by **mvgrogan** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:27 am

no idea what the legal situation is but in your shoes I'd take them in. they know your kids, so you're not a complete stranger. maybe it'll give the parents a scare when they come back & find the kids are missing!

this is my personal opinion but I would say this is classed as abuse.... isn't it? I'm glad they had the sense to call on you for help - please do give them as much as you can.

oompah18 · Post by **oompah18** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:30 am

Thanks for the support, it is soooo upsetting as a Mum, isn´t it, to see kids like this. Anyway, will see what tomorrow brings, good night!

onkko · Post by **onkko** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:50 am

Well there isnt law about how long kids can be alone but course criminal code says

Section 14 - Abandonment (578/1995)
A person who renders another helpless or abandons a helpless person in respect of
whom he or she has an obligation of care, and thereby endangers the life or health
of said person, shall be sentenced for abandonment to a fine or to imprisonment for
at most two years.

Call social services. I remember that you live somewhere near tampere so i searched tampere ones http://www.tampere.fi/english/familyand ... ction.html

Every person who notices that a child or adolescent needs help can contact a social welfare worker.
Just as well, the child or adolescent herself/himself, parents, relatives or neighbours can also ask for help. Information can also be given in anonymity.

An employee or trustee of the social welfare and health services, school personnel, the police or parish are all, in accordance with the child protection law, liable to report on a child in need of child protection.

When a social welfare worker receives a report on the situation of a child, the child protection office has an obligation to investigate whether that child or family needs any support services.

CH · Post by CH » Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:08 pm

penelope wrote: But, I don't think there is a law like this in Finland.

No, there is no specific law. And I really don't think there needs to be one either. It is a case by case thing, were they evaluate if a child has been endangered. Are two kids under 10 able to take care of themselves with no money or food? I think most social workers would say no.

Please, call the social services in your area! Honestly, that is what you are supposed to do in cases like this. Leaving a school aged kid alone for an hour or so, yes totally normal in Finland and nobody would bat an eye. Leave your (young) kids to fend for themselves for days... that is not normal, not acceptable, never has been and never will be. And without money, food, or heating... that is child neglect at minimum.

Amandine.K · Post by **Amandine.K** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:29 pm

Call social services! Definitely worth giving them a call, poor kids!

Hazen · Post by **Hazen** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:24 am

Call the social services. They won't automatically take the children away from their father, but they will be able to moniter the situation and offer the necessary help and support. These children need an adult to be responsible enough to make sure they have the care they need.
I met with a woman from the social services last year in connection with my work. She told me the biggest problem they face is that they're not informed early enough of potential problems because of the fear that the last ditch solution, taking the children away from the parent, would be implemented. So, when they are called in, that is often the only solution left as the situation has deteriorated so badly.

wicked lewis · Post by **wicked lewis** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:13 pm

I have to say its great theres still people like you out there. In this very best developed society (so its advertized), can be also the coldest. Im sure people saw they were vulnerable, but who cares, its not their problem anyway.
Neglected young people and old people isnt something very uncommon at all. So yes, be human, be different and call the SS, for those two kids that didnt chose the parents they have. Note to grown ups is, if your feeling bad and might faint, down fall on the sidewalk because probably you might be there for 8 hours with people passing by you, throw yourself in the street, if the cars cannot go by, some pissed off driver will call help because he cannot get to his destination.

Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:40 pm

wicked lewis wrote:I have to say its great theres still people like you out there. In this very best developed society (so its advertized), can be also the coldest. Im sure people saw they were vulnerable, but who cares, its not their problem anyway.
Neglected young people and old people isnt something very uncommon at all. So yes, be human, be different and call the SS, for those two kids that didnt chose the parents they have. Note to grown ups is, if your feeling bad and might faint, down fall on the sidewalk because probably you might be there for 8 hours with people passing by you, throw yourself in the street, if the cars cannot go by, some pissed off driver will call help because he cannot get to his destination.

Location: Helsinki

Q.E.D

Helsinki is not such a big city in world standards, but for Finland it is, thus you get big city syndrome there.

silk · Post by **silk** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 4:14 pm

wicked lewis wrote:In this very best developed society (so its advertized), can be also the coldest.

I don't think Finns claim to be any more caring individuals than the rest of the world's population. People are people wherever you go, and in big cities they may seem cold, as already mentioned. But the society has in place an excellent welfare system and socialized medicine.

Oompah, I hope you have contacted social services and let the process take place.

09seger · Post by **09seger** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:00 pm

Well yes in Uk its illegal for under 14 yr olds to be left alone...we could even end up in prison. So sad to hear that people can do such things to small children. If I had no heating in this climate i would end up seriously ill as would alot of other people. My children sometimes wake up scared of the dark at night and these poor children have nobody to go to. It so sad. I feel that the Finnish society are not that family orientated though.
I myself has just had to give up my job because the available childcare doesn not cover my times of work. I have a 3 yr old, a 5 year old a 6 year old and a 9 yr old. I have been to the job centre today to be told lack of childcare is not a reason to give up a job! Hmmmm ok then but any normal human would not leave their four children home alone from 5am then let the 9 yr old sort them out, give them breakfast, dress them and walk them 1km to the childcare setting .. then see himself off to school!
I dont know whats acceptable here in this country but it seems children are supposed to bring themselves up!!

onkko · Post by **onkko** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:26 pm

09seger wrote:Well yes in Uk its illegal for under 14 yr olds to be left alone...we could even end up in prison.... I feel that the Finnish society are not that family orientated though.

Its great for family when you put parents in jail, really great example of family oriented society...

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:40 pm

onkko wrote:
09seger wrote:Well yes in Uk its illegal for under 14 yr olds to be left alone...we could even end up in prison.... I feel that the Finnish society are not that family orientated though.
Its great for family when you put parents in jail, really great example of family oriented society...

And it is untrue. There is no law in the UK that specifically states at what age children can be left on their own. See my post at the top of the thread and the link I gave to the NSPCC.

That doesn't mean that it is legal either. But technically speaking it is NOT a criminal offence to leave a child home alone even in the UK.

09seger · Post by **09seger** » Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:21 pm

I myself has just had to give up my job because the available childcare doesn not cover my times of work. I have a 3 yr old, a 5 year old a 6 year old and a 9 yr old. I have been to the job centre today to be told lack of childcare is not a reason to give up a job! So I cannot claim anything. Hmmmm ok then but any normal human would not leave their four children home alone from 5am then let the 9 yr old sort them out, give them breakfast, dress them and walk them 1km to the childcare setting .. then see himself off to school!

This was the most important point!!!! Nobody commented on. Instead you all just want to correct what is right and what is wrong.

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