Ärsyttävä ahma.....

[Rob A.]

Here's a cute little story from todays Helsingin Sanomat.... and a bit of language practice for me...it was a bit tough...with those typical Finnish adjectival strings.... And I had problems with one phrase....



Ahma kyllästyi kuvaamiseen – anasti kameran

...."Wolverine Gets Tired of the Filming....Stole the Camera"


Metsästäjä Reijo Vesterisen riistan seuraamiseen tarkoitettu valvontakamera päätyi ahman saaliiksi Kannonkoskella. Vesterinen oli seurannut Kannonkosken metsässä hirvenhaaskalla vierailleita eläimiä kameralla syksystä lähtien, mutta viime viikonloppuna yksi metsästäjän seurantaan joutuneista eläimistä teki valvonnasta lopun: ahma kähvelsi valvontakameran, joka oli syrjäisessä metsässä puuhun kiinnitettynä.

More or less literally:

..."Hunter Reijo Vesterinen’s game-tracking-meant surveillance camera ended up as wolverine’s prey in Kannonkoski. Vesterinen was monitoring in Kannonkoski forest on-moose-carcass-visiting animals on camera since last fall, but last weekend his montoring of one hunter ???? quickly from animal put an end to the surveillance: the wolverine stole the surveillance camera, which was deep in the forest attached to a tree."

More typical English:

..."Hunter Reijo Vesterinen's surveillance camera, meant for tracking game, ended up as a wolverine's prey in Kannonkoski. Since last fall, Vesterinen has been monitoring on camera animals visiting a moose carcass, but last weekend his monitoring of one hunter ...???... put an end to the surveillance: the wolverine stole the surveillance camera, which was deep in the forest attached to a tree."

Now what does this phrase mean?

....yksi metsästäjän seurantaan joutuneista eläimistä......... I've got the sense of the article correct, but I just can't unscramble this....I think the problem word might be: joutuneista.....

[onkko]

....yksi metsästäjän seurantaan joutuneista eläimistä......... I've got the sense of the article correct, but I just can't unscramble this....I think the problem word might be: joutuneista.....

One of "animals-who-were-unwillingly-in-hunter-surveillance"
Joutuneista = from joutua "to-be-in-to-?-unwillingly" = more than one of "set of" "something" who are unwillingly in something

..."Hunter Reijo Vesterinen’s game-tracking-meant surveillance camera ended up as wolverine’s prey in Kannonkoski. Vesterinen was monitoring in Kannonkoski forest on-moose-carcass-visiting animals on camera since last fall, but last weekend one of animals "who happened to be surveilled by hunter" put quickly end to the surveillance: the wolverine stole the surveillance camera, which was deep in the forest attached to a tree."

[onkko]

Joutua has meaning of "it just happened withouth consent or will". Like you could "joutua" as victim of flood or other nature disaster or in traffic accident.
It also means forced decision where you just dont have any reasonable way to affect outcome so you basically have only one way in your decision, you could "joutua" to choose if you want your kid or unknown kid to die (grim example).

In story wolverine had no consent or will to be filmed so it "joutui" in film and it was one of animals who "joutuivat" in film so it was one of in film "joutuneista" animals

I dont know good translation for joutua, maybe "end up".

[Pursuivant]

[Rob A.]

Joutua has meaning of "it just happened withouth consent or will". Like you could "joutua" as victim of flood or other nature disaster or in traffic accident.
It also means forced decision where you just dont have any reasonable way to affect outcome so you basically have only one way in your decision, you could "joutua" to choose if you want your kid or unknown kid to die (grim example).

In story wolverine had no consent or will to be filmed so it "joutui" in film and it was one of animals who "joutuivat" in film so it was one of in film "joutuneista" animals

I dont know good translation for joutua, maybe "end up".

Thanks onkko...I think I follow...I'll think about it some more... Oh yes...and the word, "quickly" I should not have included...not sure why I thought that should have been in there...

...yksi metsästäjän seurantaan joutuneista eläimistä ......."one of hunter's surveillance's unwilling animals"....I guess this is close...

[Aside: One of the few animals I've never seen in the Canadian wilderness is the wolverine....they are kind of solitary animals and seem to have huge territorial requirements....I assume it's the same in Finland.... Ei nähdä kovin usein ahmaa metsässä.... ]

[Rob A.]

"I'm not telling how I unwillingly got Naimi..." But who's "unwilling"? ....him or Naimi? ..

[Jukka Aho]

"I'm not telling how I unwillingly got Naimi..." But who's "unwilling"? ....him or Naimi? ..:wink:

Click on the YouTube logo to get the full title. A fairly accurate translation for joutua is either “to have to”, “to be forced into”, or “to end up in something, to end up doing/having to do something”. Or maybe “to let oneself in for”. Sometimes also “to run into” or “to walk into” (a situation you would rather have avoided if it were up to you).

[Rob A.]

And here’s another example of the use of the verb, joutua…from today’s HS… And I thought I would carry on with this as another language exercise…..not too difficult….I’ve left it in more or less literal English… I had some problems with the second to last paragraph….the phrase… elleivät syyttäjät julkistaisi toimittajien vaatimia tietoja….



Ambulanssi joutui hyökkäyksen kohteeksi joulukuun alussa Ciudad Juarezin kaupungissa.
…”Ambulance forced to be target of attack at the beginning of December in the city of Cuidad Juarez.”

Meksikon huumesodassa on kuollut 47 000 ihmistä viiden viime vuoden aikana. Viranomaisten julkaisemien tietojen mukaan pelkästään viime vuoden yhdeksän ensimmäisen kuukauden aikana kuoli lähes 13 000 ihmistä huumekauppaan liittyneissä väkivaltaisuuksissa.
…”In Mexico’s drug war are dead 47,000 people during the five last years. According to public official’s published information during last year during only the first nine month period died nearly 13,000 people in drug trade related violence.”

Tilastojen mukaan valtaosa viime vuoden henkirikoksista tehtiin kahdeksassa Meksikon 32 osavaltiosta. Tilastojen mukaan pelkästään Ciudad Juarezin rajakaupungissa on kuollut yli 1 200 ihmistä. Tiedot ovat peräisin valtionsyyttäjiltä.
…”According to statistics the majority of last year’s homicides occurred in eight of Mexico’s 32 states. According to statistics in the border city of Cuidad Juarez alone, have died over 1200 people. Information originated from the State Prosecutors.”

Presidentti Vicente Calderon usutti armeijan huumekartellien kimppuun vuonna 2006. Sen jälkeen väkivaltaisuudet lisääntyivät räjähdysmäisesti.
…”President Vicente Calderon set the army against the drug cartels in 2006. Since then violence has increased explosively.”

Meksikon hallitus julkisti aiemmin säännöllisesti tiedon huumesodan kuolonuhrien määrästä, mutta lopetti julkistukset noin vuosi sitten, kun määrä nousi lähes 35 000:een. Maan sananvapausvirasto uhkasi tutkinnalla, elleivät syyttäjät julkistaisi toimittajien vaatimia tietoja keskiviikkoon mennessä.
…”The Government of Mexico announced earlier regularly information on amount of drug war victims, but stopped announcements only a year ago, when the numbers rose to nearly 35,000. The country’s freedom of speech agency has threatened to investigate, unless they prosecutors would announce reporter’s demands (for) information by next Wednesday.”

Maan oikeusministeriön mukaan tärkeämpää kuin uhrien määrän kertominen "on sen takaaminen, että jokainen henkirikoksista tutkitaan." Tilaston mukaan kuitenkin vain harva henkirikoksista on päätynyt poliisitutkintaan, uutistoimisto AP kertoo.
…”According to the country’s justice minster more important than the number of victims accounting “is guaranteeing that each homicide is investigated.” According to statistics nevertheless only very few homicides are concluded by police investigation, news bureau AP reports.”

Kind of sad I would say....but considering that Mexico has a huge population ...112 Million, it's still statistically a low number....and most of the problems are in about 25% of the Mexican states.... Oh well, I don't think I'll be going there any time soon, as beautiful and scenic as the country is, and as pleasant as the vast majority of the people actually are....

I love mariachi music ...

[silk]

Your translations were very good. Here are some minor corrections...

Maan sananvapausvirasto uhkasi tutkinnalla, elleivät syyttäjät julkistaisi toimittajien vaatimia tietoja keskiviikkoon mennessä.
The country’s freedom of speech agency has threatened to investigate, unless they prosecutors would announce reporter’s demands (for) information by next Wednesday.”

The country's freedom of speech agency has threatened with an investigation, unless the prosecutors make public the information demanded by the reporters by Wednesday.

Maan oikeusministeriön mukaan tärkeämpää kuin uhrien määrän kertominen "on sen takaaminen, että jokainen henkirikoksista tutkitaan." Tilaston mukaan kuitenkin vain harva henkirikoksista on päätynyt poliisitutkintaan, uutistoimisto AP kertoo.
…”According to the country’s justice minster more important than the number of victims accounting “is guaranteeing that each homicide is investigated.” According to statistics nevertheless only very few homicides are concluded by police investigation, news bureau AP reports.”

According to the country's Ministry of Justice.... According to the statistic, however, only few of the homicides have ended up in a police investigation.

I corrected the last sentence because your translation states that the police have concluded few of the investigations. The Finnish sentence, however, only states that few of the homicides have ended up in a police investigation (not concluded).

[AldenG]

A couple of additional quibbles: for on kuollut, I'd suggest have died (instead of are dead) so as to keep sight of the fact it's an established verb form (the present perfect) and not merely attributing a state to them; and for tehtiin, I'd suggest were committed rather than occurred.

I still think Waltari has more sense of humor than Hesari and better writing to boot.

[snowcelt]

...yksi metsästäjän seurantaan joutuneista eläimistä....


I would put this more as "one of the animals which ended up having to be monitored by hunters", or similar. I doubt the wolverines were willing or unwilling in the process, particularly as they were clearly annoyed at having their photos taken with a trail camera.

As an off-topic continuation, I reckon the pic of the beast shown in the OP was taken with a trail camera or riistakamera, which according to the article below can also be used to monitor your mökki. I've used one in Metsähallitus for monitoring visitor numbers to an island in the Archipelago Sea. However, we also had to inform visitors about our monitoring activity and that no pictures taken would be made public. Pity really, especially as the cam "caught" one chap peeing right in front of the information boards, with WC's only another 5 metres away. Luckily he had his back to the cam while relieving himself but the very next frame is a full close-up of his face!

http://www.esaimaa.fi/Online/2010/09/22 ... 19725676/4

[Rob A.]

And yet another example of the use of joutua....this time from uusikielleme....

Minä jouduin kävelemään kotiin, koska pyörä oli rikki.

...." I ended up walking home, because the tire was flat."

Joutua is described as a -maan verb...verbs connected with it are nominalized in third infinitive forms with an illative case ending....sort of like saying "I ended up into walking home..." . Why it wouldn't be the inessive...kävelemässä, I don't know but it isn't.... I think it might be something to do with whether the first verb is a "state"/"condition" or an "action"...??...

Other third infinitive -maan verbs are jäädä, kyllästyä, opetella, etc.....

[AldenG]

One way or another, most good translations of joutua usually end up using end up somewhere in the sentence, though the ambulance sentence works best with became: An ambulance became the target of an attack... It's a borderline case, IMO. You could also use was and lose only a little intended nuance. But forced is a little . . . forced for the context. It draws too much attention to the nuance that joutua adds.

Or what say natives?

[Rob A.]

One way or another, most good translations of joutua usually end up using end up somewhere in the sentence, though the ambulance sentence works best with became: An ambulance became the target of an attack... It's a borderline case, IMO. You could also use was and lose only a little intended nuance. But forced is a little . . . forced for the context. It draws too much attention to the nuance that joutua adds.

Or what say natives?

Thanks Alden....and I suppose in my example above I was getting a bit casual with the translation...it was my translation and pyörä probably was intended to be "bicycle ..."because the bicycle was broken."...

[AldenG]

Yes -- my eyes tend to bounce across the screen if I'm not deliberately attentive, and I really only noticed the second half of that post.

I see we're back to why again.

With joutua it's almost implicit in the English end up itself -- apparently there is a beginning and an end. It's a process, as are kyllästyä and opetella. And so is jäädä in Finnish (though it's harder to think of remain that way), as one sees in the sentence Mies jäi pois aseman kohdalla or Mies jäi auton alle.

That's why they are grammatically like lähden ostamaan and not käyn ostamassa.