Maahanmuuttajakoulutus (immigrant training)

Shipwreck · Post by **Shipwreck** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:52 am

I was recently admitted to the immigrant preparation course for vocational studies (Maahamuuttajakoulutus). Does anyone have any experiences from this kind of course? How is the teaching? Were you able to learn Finnish sufficiently and find a work/study place? How were you advised about your choice of vocational studies? I have not decided whether or not I will attend this course because I am not sure how useful it will be. Thanks!

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Kutittaa · Post by **Kutittaa** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:30 pm

It depends entirely on where you live. In Helsinki I hear the courses are pretty good. In Oulu they were garbage for the month and a half I was there. I looked for work the entire time and dropped out after 7 weeks when I found work.

The course here was pretty good and after going there a few times (after a year or two) and with sufficient studying yourself you could learn Finnish in a few years. The courses do help a lot, you can't really learn Finnish on your own or any other way. But for that matter they aren't all that good, at least here. It depends on where you are, how far away the school is, how much of a pain in the ass it is to go vs. how good the teaching is. A lot depends on the teacher also, because they are going to be dealing with a bunch of slackers from 3rd world countries who didn't grow up with an understanding of the word 'respect'. It doesn't help that many of the teachers are women, at least here in Oulu.. ALL the teachers are women.

So no, the course is definitely, definitely, definitely not a meal ticket into finding a job and the certificate you get for passing doesn't mean !"#¤% to an employer. But you should take the course because it takes years to get in, you get paid for it and because you have nothing else better to do.

Regardless of how the course is, why let on like you're even remotely going to drop the course? If you really are dumb enough to drop the course without having a job you'll get a 'karenssi'. So I hope you either have a tree that grows money automatically or that you are made of money. People can wait years to get accepted into those schools, if you drop out with no other plans then you're a real class of idiot.

Rara · Post by **Rara** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:59 pm

to the points but absolutely hard words..

Shipwreck · Post by **Shipwreck** » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:53 am

Thanks for the reply. Appreciate your honesty. Funny that you mention about respect, because I even noticed during the sovituskoe that many of the other applicants were being quite rude to the teacher by laughing and talking over her. Every 30 seconds she had to ask them to be quiet so that the others could hear her. Not to sound like I have a prejudice, but it did seem like the ones who were causing all of the disturbance were immigrants from a certain part of the "developing" world. Maybe that is just their style, but I was pretty shocked at how grown adults could behave in such a disrespecting manner.

I haven't made any concrete decision yet. I might end up just going back home at the end of the summer. In any case I will consider my options carefully.

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:59 am

They think "respect" is something that can be demanded. Of course you softies bend over and let them think its OK. Thanks to you they whine racism when they meet a Finn who doesn't take their attitude.

Kutittaa · Post by **Kutittaa** » Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:52 pm

Trust me Shipwreck you haven't seen the half of it until you start one of those courses. But if you want to learn Finnish that's your best bet. At least do the course once, make some friends and stay away from those idiots. Apparently they calm down after a few months and settle in. But there will always be a class clown and if the teacher is a female the lesson will be more interesting for everyone and more laid-back. But that isn't always a good thing.

Kutittaa · Post by **Kutittaa** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:12 pm

Nice to see you are still alive and around tummansininen.

Though I am very sorry to hear about your coping with the courses. For the time I was there it was absolute hell as well. It was even worse seeing the friends I had made from other courses (during break times etc). in classes with absolutely no issues what-so-ever all getting along no problem. Whilst I was stuck in a course with a bunch of people who knew next to nothing and would rather sit around all day arguing with each other. Talking over the top of the teacher, questioning everything she had to say. Disrespecting her at every opportunity and just being disruptive in general. It was absolute chaos. The teacher cried at 3 different occasions, so half the class after the second time made her a card to try and make her feel better.

Apparently even after the coming months she still didn't get the message and I heard that nothing had changed. She was still letting everyone run wild...

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:21 pm

What I suggest is try to make some Finnish friends and force them to correct your speaking. They won't be able to tell you "why", but if you learn phrases you can get ahead in communication instead of reaching the ablatiivi. Depends on how you learn languages, some people can parrot, some people need years of mindnumbing grammar. Go to the local baari to do your homework, some of the local old coots will have fun on your expense, but you'll learn a lot more. Also, those selkouutiset, just turn them on and try following.

Kutittaa · Post by **Kutittaa** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:31 pm

This is about as easy as Finnish gets: http://yle.fi/supisuomea/
Try this too: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9504
Watch these: http://opettajatv.yle.fi/teemat/aine/816/817#mtkvideo

It's not like you have anything else better to do.

Shipwreck · Post by **Shipwreck** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:18 am

Yikes...I knew that I would get some mixed opinions, but it seems that the general consensus is that I should brace myself for an immigrant sh*t storm.

The only reason why I am considering attending this course is to improve my Finnish. I read selkouutiset and other Finnish newspapers almost everyday, and I review my grammar on a regular basis. I use Finnish as much as I can in my daily life, but it still seems that there is a big difference between the Finnish that I learn from supisuomea and the Finnish that is used in the everyday lives of Finns (i.e. in the workplace). Ultimately I want to get a half-decent job where I am not struggling simply to understand where the coffee machine is! I know that I am probably never going to be able to understand and follow absolutely everything, but I want to be able to manage and have my Finnish language skills be considered a positive thing by potential employers, and not a hindrance. The other day when I ran into one of my neighbors in the piha he started chatting me up something about a mummo (grandmother). After several repeated attempts to understand what he was getting at I finally had to admit that I had absolutely no idea what he was saying. I hate being forced into that! I just felt that maybe this course would teach some more "practical" Finnish, instead of just focusing on grammar and veeeerrry sllllooooowww liiissstteeeniiinnnng cooommppprrreeehheeensssioooon tasks.

Shipwreck · Post by **Shipwreck** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:33 am

Pursuivant wrote:They think "respect" is something that can be demanded. Of course you softies bend over and let them think its OK. Thanks to you they whine racism when they meet a Finn who doesn't take their attitude.

I suppose I understand your sentiment, but don't you think that you are over-generalizing a bit too much? I have no doubt that many immigrants (and Finns for that matter) feel that they are the center of the world and that other people's lives should revolve around them, but what good would it do to start berating them in public for what they probably consider to be "normal" behavior? Furthermore I still would like to believe that the majority of immigrants to this country are willing and eager to learn about Finnish society and culture and take steps towards integration. I know many foreigners who praise Finnish people for their honesty and integrity, who I have never heard "whine racism".

I do not think that I personally (or most Finnish people for that matter) "bend over" and let other immigrants behave in a socially unacceptable manner (i.e. if someone is harassing another person and causing a public disturbance which could potentially lead to dangerous consequences I am pretty sure that myself or someone else would step in to make sure that the situation doesn't go too far---at the very least the police would be contacted). But how do you (or should you) change the manerisms of someone who comes from a completely different part of the world from a completely different culture? Integration is a two-way street, no?

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:56 pm

Shipwreck wrote:but what good would it do to start berating them in public for what they probably consider to be "normal" behavior?

Because it is not "normal behavior". They are not "at home", the natives are. The natives make the rules what is "normal" in their own home. They are the ones who offer employment as well. You sing the song of the man who gives you bread, or then no bread. Simple?

I do not think that I personally (or most Finnish people for that matter) "bend over" and let other immigrants behave in a socially unacceptable manner

Yes they do. Already it is evident that the laws don't apply to foreigners, there is double standards and the Finns are 2nd class citizens in their own country.

But how do you (or should you) change the manerisms of someone who comes from a completely different part of the world from a completely different culture?

Why exactly should I change theirs and why exactly should I change mine for that matter? They choose to come to my country and my culture. If they want to live in their country, they can live in their country. If I wanted to live in their country, I would go to their country. So if I want to live in my country - where should I go?

Integration is a two-way street, no?

Yes,people are free to make an u-turn if they don't like it where they're heading to.

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:57 pm

Shipwreck wrote: but it still seems that there is a big difference between the Finnish that I learn from supisuomea and the Finnish that is used in the everyday lives of Finns (i.e. in the workplace).

Yeah, but the vocational course won't teach you to speak like an "amis", it'll explain whats the difference between kolmivaihevaihtovirtakilowattituntimittari and lentokoneensuihkuturbiinikorjaajaoppilas

For amis-speak, I'd recommend grabbing Daniel Abondolo's Colloquial Finnish, and in no time you'll have a toyota DX with fuzzy dices.

Heres some flashcards http://quizlet.com/subject/finnish-lang ... puhekieli/

Shipwreck · Post by **Shipwreck** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:21 pm

Interesting points. I'll have to mull them over.

Thanks for the flashcards website! Great resource.

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