Family ties RP - Apply or not? Really need your help!

chocolate0802 · Post by **chocolate0802** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:59 am

Hi,

My name is Mia, a Vietnamese girl and I need your advice for my residence permit. I have lived in Finland for three years to study for my bachelor degree and work for my university (Aalto University). Right now I'm studying and working part time in the US, and my Finnish fiancé and I will get married in New York in December. After that we will go to Vietnam and Finland for two more ceremonies in January and March 2013 respectively.

I'm thinking that it'd be the most convenient to apply for a Finnish RP when I'm there, because I don't want to go back and forth between places and my Finnish graduation ceremony is in April 2013. But I might be wrong...

I have researched a lot through this website and I understand that it might take several months to get the decision. In fact, I would be okay with it, if I didn't have anything else to do, i.e doing my master degree in the US or somewhere in Europe next fall (my Finnish student RP will be expired in August 2013). Knowing that the police might keep my passport, I'm worried it might delay my studies, because I need my passport to actually enroll in the new university.

My case is pretty simple: we studied in the same uni, have been in love for more than a year, stayed together for six months now. I want to ask if it is better to apply right away when I go back to Espoo in March. Is there a chance to get it before August 2013? Or would it be more convenient to apply for it from the place where I will be studying (my future husband will be with me of course)? Or maybe just delay until it's convenient (though the police might ask why I don't apply for it right away)? I'm really undecided due to the fact that my passport might be kept

.

I really want to go back to Finland during Xmas or Midsummer/Summer to visit my friends and in laws, but to me study is very very important, so it's really hard to think

.

Please help and thank you so much in advance!

**Sponsor:**

rinso · Post by **rinso** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:36 am

doing my master degree in the US or somewhere in Europe next fall

I understand you are not planning to stay in Finland after your graduation?
In that case don't even apply for a RP. If you leave before your RP is processed, they might not let you back in.
Main problem are the airlines. Since they have to pay if somebody is refused at the border, they often check your pass for a visa or RP. No RP, no boarding.

When you're married to a Finn, it should be no problem to get a short time visitors visa for Xmas. Go for the RP when you intend to settle down in Finland.
And remember a residence permit is for residing. If you move out for longer periods (study) they might cancel the RP.

chocolate0802 · Post by **chocolate0802** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:52 am

Thank you so much Rinso! After receiving my bachelor degree I plan to study for an MBA and learn Finnish and Russian before settling down in Finland sometime in the future. Right now my school in the US offers me and my fiancé to work as their video/photographers, and they ask us to come back next year to continue the work. We don't have any decisions yet, but when I think about it, it might be better to work and study at the same time. I know how hard it is to find a decent job in Finland, and Finnish is so hard that it would take me years to master, so I would just be a jobless student and my husband would have to earn a living for both of us (or my parents will support us for some time), which, I think, is unfair for them

.

I think my current permit to stay until August is enough to enjoy the time with my in-laws until I decide where to study. But if for some reason I choose to continue with Aalto Uni, can I just apply for a student RP first in order to start the studies, then apply for a family RP later? I'm just afraid the process for a family RP might take longer than 5 months.

I really appreciate your help and have a great weekend!

007 · Post by **007** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:13 pm

chocolate0802 wrote:But if for some reason I choose to continue with Aalto Uni, can I just apply for a student RP first in order to start the studies, then apply for a family RP later? I'm just afraid the process for a family RP might take longer than 5 months.

You should apply for family-based RP once you are married. They cannot remove you from Finland until a negative decision is made. If for some reasons, a negative decision is made, then you can appeal and at the same time, you have an option of applying for student RP provided that you are studying in Finland.

chocolate0802 · Post by **chocolate0802** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:46 pm

Thank you for your time 007! That would be the optimal solution if I decided to study my master in Finland. But I'm worried that my studies will possibly be delayed if the family-based RP does not arrive on time (I would have about four months from the end of March til August to get it).

Our travel plan just makes it complicated (leave the US on Jan 2nd, stay in Vietnam until February, travel around Asia until March 2013 and then go back to Finland for the wedding ceremony and graduation party). At the point of booking the flights, I naively didn't realize the conflicts. Now that our job situation in the US looks bright, I'm even more undecided, because my fiancé loves his homeland and it took me several months to convince him that it's better to study and work here first, then go back to Finland when we both have promising job offers.

I do love Finland (or in fact my friends, my fiancé's family and my host family who reside there), but somehow I'm not ready to spend months living without a job (I major in International Business and minor in Finance...I also have work experiences but without Finnish life is tough). I know this is kinda off the topic, but I would appreciate if you could give me some personal experiences on this matter as well...

007 · Post by **007** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:12 pm

May I ask where you intend to live after you and your fiance get married? If in Finland, I don't see why you shouldn't apply for family-based RP but if you two live in US, why do you bother with finnish RP?

well.. I don't think I can be of much help to you. Good luck with your future plans.

chocolate0802 · Post by **chocolate0802** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:30 pm

We want to see what we could get after the application process. The result will largely affect our decisions, and since I want to work while studying I want to be in the US, but my fiancé finds it a bit hard to live far away from Finland. However, we both can compromise, so we might stay in the US and go back and forth to Finland frequently. The reason I'm considering a RP is as still holding a Vietnamese passport, I need a visa every time I want to travel (except for SE Asian countries) which makes it very inconvenient for my job and studies, even though I have never been denied a visa/RP to any country before. I don't know if Finland has the same visa that lasts for a year and allows multiple entries like the US.

007 · Post by **007** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:02 pm

chocolate0802 wrote:We want to see what we could get after the application process. The result will largely affect our decisions, and since I want to work while studying I want to be in the US, but my fiancé finds it a bit hard to live far away from Finland. However, we both can compromise, so we might stay in the US and go back and forth to Finland frequently. The reason I'm consider a RP is because as still holding a Vietnamese passport, I need a visa every time I want to travel (except for SE Asian countries) which makes it very inconvenient for my job and studies, even though I have never been denied a visa/RP to any country before. I don't know if Finland has the same visa that lasts for a year and allows multiple entries like the US.

Yeah.. that crossed my mind as you said you are a vietnamese.... anyway, applying for family-based RP seems to be the best option for you but you should pay the price for that in terms of having to stay here until an RP decision is made. I am not sure whether you can travel in and out of Finland during that period for you must have a valid visa or RP to get into Finland.

chocolate0802 · Post by **chocolate0802** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:26 pm

What I'm really afraid is that my passport might be kept, according to some posts I have read here

. Nonetheless, some said the police in big cities don't keep your passport. I might as well call/email them to ask... Other than that it's alright cos my current Finnish RP is valid til middle of August 2013 when I should already decide which way to go. Without a passport I really have to stay in Finland for the whole time, which makes it impossible for me to travel with my sister when she comes to Germany next summer as part of her master program

. I'm sorry if I sound too greedy for wanting everything at the same time, but it worries me in case I cannot get my travel document back before the decision is made.

Anyways, thanks so much 007! Have a good weekend <3

rinso · Post by **rinso** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:36 am

I'm sorry if I sound too greedy for wanting everything at the same time,
.
However, we both can compromise, so we might stay in the US and go back and forth to Finland frequently. The reason I'm considering a RP is as still holding a Vietnamese passport, I need a visa every time I want to travel (except for SE Asian countries) which makes it very inconvenient for my job and studies,

The more I read about your plans, the more I'm convinced a RP is not for you.
A residence permit is not a kind of minor citizenship for mobile foreigners. If you're not living here permanently (more than 183 days/year), than you can not get or hold on to your RP.

I major in International Business

Many schools in the countryside offer IB programs for foreign students. It devaluated the appreciation for IB. Don't expect companies eagerly awaiting your arrival.

chocolate0802 · Post by **chocolate0802** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:51 am

rinso wrote:
Many schools in the countryside offer IB programs for foreign students. It devaluated the appreciation for IB. Don't expect companies eagerly awaiting your arrival.

Thank you for giving me the advice and now I'm pretty convinced that I should just wait til I complete my MBA in the US. I have lived in Finland for only three years but it's enough to see that foreign undergrads are not appreciated much, that's why I'm doing an extra Finance program here in the US and will specialize in Finance. I don't expect anything cos if I did, I would just come back to Finland and desperately wait for a job

. Unlike other posts on this forum, I think I'm done living my teenage dream already

.

Thank you so much again for taking your time

rinso · Post by **rinso** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:30 am

it's enough to see that foreign undergrads are not appreciated much

With the free education system here, any undergrad is considered a drop out.

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:05 pm

Basically - when you get married in New York, you go to the Finnish Consulate and get your marriage registered. That means then that you are "in the computer" as married. (You can have a ceremony and whatnot in church regardless, though its not a marriage but a blessing nobody can tell the difference, which in any case you would have to have as its illegal to get married twice as you are already married.) I suppose the Vietnamese consulate would do a similar thing. So then you two would have "proof" and not have to worry except the US immigration at the time. In any case, as a spouse you could apply for the RP either in Finland or say in the US while you are studying - they won't want your passport except to check the identity as RP's are not anything in the passport any more, but its a separate card issued. So as you are in NY, at the consulate - and they require fingerprints - why not kill two flies at one stroke?

Adrian42 · Post by **Adrian42** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:12 pm

chocolate0802 wrote:We want to see what we could get after the application process. The result will largely affect our decisions, and since I want to work while studying I want to be in the US, but my fiancé finds it a bit hard to live far away from Finland.

It looks pretty clear that you can get a student RP or an RP based on family ties if you decide to move back to Finland.

You two have to decide where you want to live first, and then sort out the formalities.

chocolate0802 wrote:However, we both can compromise, so we might stay in the US and go back and forth to Finland frequently. The reason I'm considering a RP is as still holding a Vietnamese passport, I need a visa every time I want to travel (except for SE Asian countries) which makes it very inconvenient for my job and studies,

You get a one year RP based on family ties

After a year you go to the embassy asking "I didn't actually use RP for moving to Finland, and don't plan to do so in the future, but can you anyway extend my RP?". I don't think that would work.

When you live in Finland, you can get citizenship after 4 years.

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