Need Salary advice - Engineer position in Helsinki

[starla]

I'm an American looking at a job in Helsinki with a high tech company as a production engineer. What kind of salary should I expect? I have a Bachelors from the best Engineering school in the US and 14 years of directly related experience (meaning in high tech, doing processes similar to the ones at the Finnish company)?

Also, how much of my salary should I expect to take home, and would I be covered by Finnish health insurance, and would I have to pay into the Finnish pension scheme? From all the research I've done on taxes and rent in Helsinki, it seems like we would have nothing left at the pay rate the company has quoted.

Finally, would my husband be able to secure a visa on which he could work to supplement our income?

[Rip]

I guess I could venture a guess on the salary question, but I think there are few here that can do it better, so I let it be for now.

Also, how much of my salary should I expect to take home

http://prosentti.vero.fi/VPL2013/Sivut/ ... ieli=en-US
(You need to fill the first page (to get to the next one) and then put your gross salary to the top box on the second page. I doubt there is anything of importance for you in the all the other questions)

and would I be covered by Finnish health insurance

My understanding is that it would depend on the type of your contract. Answer would be "yes", if it would open ended or a fixed term contract with a duration of at least two years.

and would I have to pay into the Finnish pension scheme?

Yes (see the note on the final line of the tax percentage calculator).

Finally, would my husband be able to secure a visa on which he could work to supplement our income?

I take you'd have to be earning that much that you fulfil the income requirement for his permit. The family member permit would give him a right to work.

[rinso]

Finally, would my husband be able to secure a visa on which he could work to supplement our income?

Getting a family member residence permit is probably no problem.
Finding a job is.

[starla]

http://prosentti.vero.fi/VPL2013/Sivut/ ... ieli=en-US
(You need to fill the first page (to get to the next one) and then put your gross salary to the top box on the second page. I doubt there is anything of importance for you in the all the other questions)

Your whole answer was quite helpful, however, when putting my information in the linked tax calculator, I got a basic rate of 31.5% and an "additional rate" of 40.5%. What is the additional rate?

[Rick1]

We are happy that you come here, so we can bring our (high) taxes to Greece and other countries where they do not like tax so much. Lets say till 40000 it is 31 percent, when you earn 45000, you have to pay over that 5000 40,5 percent (so 31 plus 9,5%).

[Upphew]

http://prosentti.vero.fi/VPL2013/Sivut/ ... ieli=en-US
(You need to fill the first page (to get to the next one) and then put your gross salary to the top box on the second page. I doubt there is anything of importance for you in the all the other questions)

Your whole answer was quite helpful, however, when putting my information in the linked tax calculator, I got a basic rate of 31.5% and an "additional rate" of 40.5%. What is the additional rate?

If you earn more than what you put to your salary, you pay the additional rate. Additional income, additional rate.

[cors187]

I'm an American looking at a job in Helsinki with a high tech company as a production engineer. What kind of salary should I expect? I have a Bachelors from the best Engineering school in the US and 14 years of directly related experience (meaning in high tech, doing processes similar to the ones at the Finnish company)?

Also, how much of my salary should I expect to take home, and would I be covered by Finnish health insurance, and would I have to pay into the Finnish pension scheme? From all the research I've done on taxes and rent in Helsinki, it seems like we would have nothing left at the pay rate the company has quoted.

Finally, would my husband be able to secure a visa on which he could work to supplement our income?

Add a 10% increase to your costs just to cover yourself.
Look to be honest you dont go anywhere in terms of climbing the food chain here if your hourly rate is 15e/hr gross or under.
But on that premise if your husbands an entrepreneur type , then using your secure payments to meet the daily grind, your could launch something that maybe you didn't have the opportunity for in the states, but that type of thing does need some capital investment.
Depending on your job description will depend on how much someone thinks your worth.

look here to show that most things are controlled by collective agreements http://www.tyosuojelu.fi/fi/wages#minimum

heres a good page to start exploring pdf and other link to link pages http://www.mol.fi/mol/en/02_working/05_ ... /index.jsp

The one thing that no one can deny about finland is , they run a tight ship!
If your looking for statistics , you've come to the right country to get those http://tilastokeskus.fi/tup/suoluk/suol ... at_en.html

[cors187]

I'm an American looking at a job in Helsinki with a high tech company as a production engineer. What kind of salary should I expect? I have a Bachelors from the best Engineering school in the US and 14 years of directly related experience (meaning in high tech, doing processes similar to the ones at the Finnish company)?

Also, how much of my salary should I expect to take home, and would I be covered by Finnish health insurance, and would I have to pay into the Finnish pension scheme? From all the research I've done on taxes and rent in Helsinki, it seems like we would have nothing left at the pay rate the company has quoted.

Finally, would my husband be able to secure a visa on which he could work to supplement our income?

As soon as you pay into the health system you are entitled i guess to say"hello, here i am and start the application process.The payment to health is covered by your employer if you are classed as an employee.
Finnish pension scheme> Yes you have to pay and its not a recoverable item like you would consider a superannuation fund that is yours to take with you.
As an employee of a company you really are better off with 2 year contract , many many experienced people here that could show you the extra hardships associated with a fixed term contract for lets say 1 year.

[cors187]

We are happy that you come here, so we can bring our (high) taxes to Greece and other countries

lol

[Rick1]

Whish it was that funny but there will still be going more and more to the south and next year will be tough because they are going to cut everywhere in Finland. Soon we are till our neck in the taxes, no services and sending our tax money away. Thanks for the strong politicians. Denmark, Sweden and Norway were smart to stay out. They should kick Greece and others out of the Euro or kick out the ones that are responsible, Barosso etc., job in the EU seems to be forever. Sorry, have not seen any sun in 3 weeks.

[Pursuivant]

The pension of course you get paid then according to how long you worked when you're 65, you just need to remember to claim it.

And fixed term contracts are BAD - you have a mayan calendar stone with "21.12.2012." there, so then is when everything ends. So you DO NOT WANT AN END DATE IN YOUR CONTRACT - you want no dates cast in stone, so everything will continue... Thus you get KELA coverage, without end date, you get residence permit, without end date (well, the first one is always for one year, then for 2, then 5, then permanent), you get a credit rating, you can get a flat, you can get a credit card... all because you're not claiming to be absconding the country on a given date... Otherwise its a wall of "NO", because they know you are gone that day - promises is promises - the date is there for everyone to see, so no reason to tell otherwise - as you wouldn't have a date there if things would have the option to continue... logic.

What comes to taxes... well... you need to be able to then try and benefit from them. Like the "free" education. Try asking how much money in a "college fund" your co-workers have set up for their kids around the coffee table and then you can start figuring out what "getting weird looks" means... kids do save up for car school though. So, if you can't get any benefit out the taxes, well, your money goes "to the Greeks". Starting a business - yes if you have money to do it, and don't mind paying taxes. You didn't say in which preofession teh hubby is - maybe he can find a good niche to fit in... or hes totally unemployable, but then theres always the option to go do a Masters degree or a PhD instead of getting cabin fever. It all depends on things.

[Rip]

Lets say till 40000 it is 31 percent, when you earn 45000, you have to pay over that 5000 40,5 percent (so 31 plus 9,5%).

Other way stating the same is that the basic rate corresponds to the overall tax rate at that income level while the additional rate should roughly equal the marginal tax rate at that income level.

You give correct income level for the tax card -> close to correct amount of taxes will be with held from your salary

You give too high figure -> the (basic) tax rate will be too high, you will get the excess you paid back at the end of following year.

You give moderately too low figure -> As both the basic rate up to that number and the marginal rate from there onwards are calculated fairly accurately you still pay pretty much the correct amount of taxes.



You give way too low figure -> even the additional rate will be too small, so too small amount is withheld for taxes. You'll be asked to pay what you did not pay earlier at the end of the following year.

[starla]

The pay rate the company quoted is 4-5000 euros/month, and according to that tax calculator if I were to get paid at the high end of the scale, then I'd be bringing home ~37,000 euros/yr unless I misunderstand something. Does that sound reasonable, or are there taxes I'm missing there? I suppose this is more than most Fins make, but is it enough to support two people in Helsinki with a decent lifestyle? I realize our lifestyle will be completely different than here in the states, where an engineer can make six figures, but we are interested in seeing a different perspective, and the job itself would be extremely valuable experience as it was described. I am just concerned because everything I read says living in Helsinki is extremely expensive, and I don't want to be poor. As far as I know, I will not be on a fixed contract. If they were to offer that I would turn it down. There is no point in me taking such a large risk and leaving a comfortable situation in the states for temp work with no benefits. Our ultimate goal would be to stay long enough to earn citizenship.

As for the husband, he already will have a PhD in chemistry so I'm not sure more schooling is the way to go for him. Ideally, he would get a postdoc or a job in industry, but we're not finding a ton of opportunities in his particular area of research. So I'm not sure what kind of work he could pick up. Would more opportunities open up if he were to learn finnish (neither of us can speak it, but the company I'm talking to doesn't seem to care)? Or would we have to accept living on one salary and having his education go to waste?

Someone spoke of free education; would I be able to get an MBA while working, or is education only free if you have no income? I was considering applying for an online MBA program in the states, but those are quite expensive ($90,000 for the one I was looking at) and if a free one is available that would be quite valuable and would factor highly into my decision.

And one final question; should I get there and find the job to not be what they made it out to be, am I able to just quit and walk away, or are employees required to give lengthy notice? I know in some countries, employees are under contract to stay and if they would like to leave, they are sometimes forced to stay 6 months or more before they are released from their contracts. Here in the states, you are employed "at will", which means both you and the employer can terminate employment at any time for any reason, but two weeks notice is the standard.

[Adrian42]

The pay rate the company quoted is 4-5000 euros/month, and according to that tax calculator if I were to get paid at the high end of the scale, then I'd be bringing home ~37,000 euros/yr unless I misunderstand something. Does that sound reasonable, or are there taxes I'm missing there?

That sounds reasonable.

I suppose this is more than most Fins make, but is it enough to support two people in Helsinki with a decent lifestyle? I realize our lifestyle will be completely different than here in the states, where an engineer can make six figures, but we are interested in seeing a different perspective, and the job itself would be extremely valuable experience as it was described. I am just concerned because everything I read says living in Helsinki is extremely expensive, and I don't want to be poor.

It always depends on what you compare Helsinki with: Helsinki is extremely expensive compared to Berlin, but compared to New York City living in Helsinki is cheap.

With 4-5000 euros/month for two people you are not poor.

Our ultimate goal would be to stay long enough to earn citizenship.

That's 5 years plus half a year for the processing of the citizenship application.

How much do you already know about Finland, and have you ever been to Finland before?
Helsinki is more Northern than the capital of Alaska, with consequences like that the length of day at this time of the year is less than 6 hours, and that the 30 cm of snow we have at the moment will likely stay until April.
And people from the US often tend to have problems to adapt to the mentality of the people here.
I don't want to scare you off, but these are things you should also be aware of.

Would more opportunities open up if he were to learn finnish (neither of us can speak it, but the company I'm talking to doesn't seem to care)?

Definitely, positions where speaking Finnish is not required are rare (even though you seem to get one of the few ones).

For getting citizenship, you two will anyway have to learn Finnish (or Swedish).

Or would we have to accept living on one salary and having his education go to waste?

In the long run, and when speaking Finnish, he will likely find a job.

And one final question; should I get there and find the job to not be what they made it out to be, am I able to just quit and walk away, or are employees required to give lengthy notice?

During the first 5 years of employment the employee usually has a notice period of 2 weeks if he wants to leave the company.

[starla]

That's 5 years plus half a year for the processing of the citizenship application.

How much do you already know about Finland, and have you ever been to Finland before?
Helsinki is more Northern than the capital of Alaska, with consequences like that the length of day at this time of the year is less than 6 hours, and that the 30 cm of snow we have at the moment will likely stay until April.
And people from the US often tend to have problems to adapt to the mentality of the people here.
I don't want to scare you off, but these are things you should also be aware of.

Actually, I have never been to Finland before! I do plan to visit prior to moving there, but moving for employment opportunities is pretty common amongst Americans. I'm not that worried about adapting to the mentality of the people, I think I'm quite adaptable. I'm also rather reserved for an American, as is my husband, so I think we will fit in quite well in northern Europe. Anyway, the cultural immersion is part of the appeal. I believe Helsinki is nearly the same latitude of Anchorage, though colder and gets less rain. I doubt the lack of daylight/darkness will bother me, as I have worked all kinds of strange schedules in the US as an engineer in various manufacturing plants. It will be quite a departure from the southern and western areas of the US that I have been living in, but that is all part of the adventure. As for my husband, he is the more adventurous of the two of us, and is ready to pack his bags.

We are assuming we will wind up learning Finnish, though if my place of employment conducts all business in English, I will probably need to sign up for some kind of lessons.