Being born in Finland or abroad. Is there any difference?

clarissa · Post by **clarissa** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:06 pm

Hello,

I am currently 3 months pregnant and I have lived in Finland for more than 2 years, but I don't have KELA coverage. My husband is working and he does have KELA coverage, but his permit (and also mine) is type B.
I have read here that if one has no Kela, they won't allow you in neuvola, but I decided to ask in the Neuvola anyway. I don't know if they haven't had a similar case or in Kuopio they are not aware of that regulation because they have programmed my appointments and I even had the ultrasound already.

What I wanted to ask is if there would be any difference for my baby to be born in Finland or in my home country. People keep telling that I should deliver the baby here, but I don't see any benefit on that since me and my husband are both foreigners so the baby would get our citizenship. I am not entitled to maternity benefits because of my lack of Kela coverage and by the way the hospital seems to be quite expensive for foreigners.

We are planning to go to my home country for the delivery, and come back when the baby is 1 or 2 months old but our schedule is going to be quite tight aroud the due date so we are also considering to deliver the baby here. Does anyone knows of similar experiences? would there be any difference for the baby in case we stay a couple of years more in Finland?

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cors187 · Post by **cors187** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:03 pm

The one thing i can add to your questions i guess is more mystery, but i was under the impression that if you support your Kela Application with a Apostille of your marriage certificate , then its possible to be added to your husbands KELA options.So im wondering what you havent already done this a while ago?
http://formin.finland.fi/public/default ... ture=en-US

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:23 pm

I don't know where "home" is, but you need to check if your airline will take you close to your due date.

clarissa · Post by **clarissa** » Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:02 am

cors187 wrote: if you support your Kela Application with a Apostille of your marriage certificate , then its possible to be added to your husbands KELA options.So im wondering what you havent already done this a while ago?
http://formin.finland.fi/public/default ... ture=en-US

2 years ago, when I received my first residence permit, I applied for Kela on the basis of my marriage and my husband's work contract, they denied it and when I asked in Kela why and if I should appeal they said that I don't apply for it because of my type of permit and because my husband's contract at that moment was less than 2 years so they told me to apply again when that happen. I doubted of their answer because in Kela page they say what you need is more than one year contract only, but how to contradict them, they are the ones who are supposed to know and nobody else seems to be sure on what to do or how to do it. I even went to a local center for inmigrants to ask for advice and they knew less than me about the subject.

Last November we applied to renew our permit but we haven't received an aswer yet, so we don't know what type will it be, we are supposed to get type A in theory, but my husband's contract is only for one year this time (he is a sportsman) so I don't really expect much to change. I have worked here before, but only for short periods of time so that doesn't help with Kela either.

I don't expect much from social security anyway, but how can I found out if the baby will have any benefit or coverage once he/she is born. Does it make any difference if he is born here or if he is born abroad and then comes to the country a few months later?

clarissa · Post by **clarissa** » Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:08 am

Rosamunda wrote:you need to check if your airline will take you close to your due date.

I had checked already and they will allow me to fly until 30 days before the due date (if the pregnancy continues normally). We are not sure on the time we will be able to leave because I will probably start a new "job" next month and it will last around 5 month... which is quite close to the due date, that's why we are considering delivering the baby here. I guess We will need to make the decision in the next few months, and that's why I want to know if there is any benefit on staying here for the delivery, or if there is no difference if the baby is born abroad (latin america) and then brought here again.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:58 am

I guess you need apply a separate visa for the baby before getting him/her there, but that is rather small thing. You're right that having the baby here costs rather lot money if you're not part of the national system or your private insurance does not cover it.

cors187 · Post by **cors187** » Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:15 pm

clarissa wrote: 2 years ago, when I received my first residence permit, I applied for Kela on the basis of my marriage and my husband's work contract,

kela on employees

Regardless of your country of origin, coverage for sickness, parental and unemployment
benefits begins as soon as you begin employment if you will work
for at least 4 consecutive months and your pay and weekly hours of work meet
certain minimum requirements.

kela on families

If you move to Finland as the member of the family of a worker or a student, you
must, as a rule, reside in Finland on a permanent basis in order to be covered
under the Finnish social security system. If you are accompanying another family
member, the nature of your move to Finland – temporary or permanent – is
judged by the same criteria that apply to the other family member.

It seems that you should have been judged on the same criteria as your husband and if your husband received a Kela card ,you can also be put on his kela card(as i have been told)
Your husband would have paid into the pension system and because of that i think you can get on his Kela.
You will need an apostille of your marriage certificate(as i have been told)
I didnt go through the legislation pages but Fins are EMO(emotional) legislators , it seems unfair legislation for a resident worker who is eligible for KEla to have his dependent resident family restricted from the same coverage that he is allocated.So i expect that the legislation provides for legal dependents.

http://www.kela.fi/in/internet/liite.ns ... meenEN.pdf

cors187 · Post by **cors187** » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:42 pm

I guess there will be proof or your initial Kela application all those years ago, so if you do get on KEla card i would hope that your Kela status is back dated to that time(seek professional law), because when i first came to FIN we talked with a friend who was just having a baby and she mentioned to us some notions that a claimant must be in the system for 13months.
Again totally unsure about the details but if a time frame is calculated, then your KEla status being back dated might make all the difference in what you decide.

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:58 pm

Yeah, going there airlines rules are quite strict. Then you will be needing to get a passport for the baby, a visa or a RP as well... so you'll be "back home" for a while.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:09 pm

Pursuivant wrote:Yeah, going there airlines rules are quite strict. Then you will be needing to get a passport for the baby, a visa or a RP as well... so you'll be "back home" for a while.

On the other side, how hard is getting the (foreign) passport for the baby from here, is they stay?
(answer depends on the country) They'll need it anyway.

Adrian42 · Post by **Adrian42** » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:56 pm

Rip wrote:
Pursuivant wrote:Yeah, going there airlines rules are quite strict. Then you will be needing to get a passport for the baby, a visa or a RP as well... so you'll be "back home" for a while.
On the other side, how hard is getting the (foreign) passport for the baby from here, is they stay?
(answer depends on the country) They'll need it anyway.

It shouldn't be harder to get it from the embassy in Finland, and in the best case it might be easy to add the baby to the passport of one of the parents.

And Pursuivant correctly points out that when the baby is delivered abroad, then the baby first needs a passport, and after it got that has to apply for a visa or RP and get a positive decision on that, before it can enter Finland for the first time.

The first thing she should do is to double-check that she really cannot get KELA coverage - after more than 2 years in the country it sounds surprising that she shouldn't be eligible for that.

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:55 pm

and in the best case it might be easy to add the baby to the passport of one of the parents.

Not any more you can't. Schengen rules, babies need their own passports.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:38 pm

Adrian42 wrote:
On the other side, how hard is getting the (foreign) passport for the baby from here, if they stay?
(answer depends on the country) They'll need it anyway.
It shouldn't be harder to get it from the embassy in Finland

You hardly can know the policies of all Latin American countries. A number of those embassies are btw in Stockholm and possibly some further away than that. A consulate may exist but does that accept passport applications? Travelling abroad to get the passport with a baby without ID papers may have some complications as well. I would check in advance.

I agree that they should recheck the KELA status.

Adrian42 · Post by **Adrian42** » Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:35 pm

Pursuivant wrote:
and in the best case it might be easy to add the baby to the passport of one of the parents.
Not any more you can't. Schengen rules, babies need their own passports.

Thanks for correcting me, I missed that this changed last year.

clarissa · Post by **clarissa** » Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:46 pm

First of all, thanks to everybody for the information and the suggestions and for answering so fast

Pursuivant wrote:A number of those embassies are btw in Stockholm

You are right, and actually that would be another issue, because there is no embassy or consulate of my contry in Finland and we would need to travel to Stockholm to apply for the passport, and as someone mentioned, it might not be so easy to do that with an "undocumented" baby. That would be an advantage of having the baby abroad, because we could do all the paperwork in my homecountry and then travel back some weeks later. We don't need visa to enter or stay in Finland for 90 days, so that makes it easier because we can apply for the baby's residence permit once we come back.

Now I know that I am not the only one that thought there was something weird about my situation. I mean, I just think it would be logical to be covered by social security because my husband is paying like 1/4 of his salary in taxes, so I would imagine we would be entitled to some benefit. Anyway, I will wait for the resolution on our new residence permit application and once I have it I will go to Kela to ask more clear information about my situation. I will probably bring a finnish friend this time because sometimes in the government offices even when people seem to speak english well enough, I am not sure if they really undestand what I am asking for or if they are giving all the information. I feel they only answer what you ask for, but how can you know what exactly to ask?
I will take some of the considerations you people mentioned because they seems logical to me too, but it appears that you never know how things will work when it comes to burocracy.

Thanks again!

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