Moving to UK from Finland with Family

[tausif.baber]

Hi, I am non-EEA national living in Finland since last 5 years. I have Finnish spouse and have been married for more than 2 years. We have a lovely child 1 year old. I am planning to move to UK with my family very soon, applied for EEA Family Permit, got one too. Now when it came the time of moving, I am not sure what shall I do, confusions you see.

The very first confusions is about Finnish RP, as I have 4 years A type RP expiring on 2016, do I have to inform the authorities that I no longer will reside here and they will cancel the permit ? I want to keep this permit if I have to come here around, lets say for Christmas, is it possible to keep it? I also have eye of PR of Finland, as it is in schenghen I don't have to apply for visas for Euro tours if I have Finnish PR.

We just have plans to move to UK, as I have some relatives there who might be helping us to find the room, but we don't really have job there, I mean not fixed yet, have to hunt for it when we are there. This is the obstacle I am facing, as we both work here part time to look after the kid, and earn some money too. Kela helps us with Housing allowances and some kid money, so, to leave all this and jump to UK might sound shot-in-own-foot, as virtually we'd not have any income until we find job. But on the other hand IT-Graduate with 5 years of experience didn't really helped me land good job and affordable life in Finland, so, looking for change. The IT jobs in UK looks quiet on demand, so, it feels like worth taking risk and move.

Will it be against law, if I don't inform anyone here that I am moving and move siently so, at least Kela money would keep flowing and inform them once I get job ?

I have been trying my best through Internet, still any ideas about job hunt in UK would also be appreciated.

[rinso]

Iirc you can leave Finland temporary for 2 years and still hold on to your RP.
But you do have to inform the maastrati that you'll move.

Will it be against law, if I don't inform anyone here that I am moving and move siently so, at least Kela money would keep flowing and inform them once I get job ?

That is highly illegal. It could very well get you banned from Finland.

[Pursuivant]

Job hunting in the UK isn't all that easy at the moment either. Also, to get registered with the authorities and getting onto any benefits isn't exactly a cakewalk in the park even the UKIP makes it seem so. Also, you must remember if you and the missus both work, child care costs in the UK are astrological. What I would suggest you do is 1) talk with a relative that you can use their address for a while. 2) get one of those redirecting VOIP numbers you can get a "landline" in the same area someone calls that redirects to your Finnish number. Then embellish your CV look as if you are "in the UK" and put it up onto say jobsite, cwjobs, theitjobboard etc. etc. 3) do you need a visa to visit the UK? if not, in the case you actually land a face-to face interview Easyjet from Tallinn or Ryanair or then from tampere gets you there - cheapest hostels in London get you sleep for under 20, a room in a rats nest around 35-40, you can score something half decent around 45 even. (try the LSE halls or the Latvian guest house). Recruiters call and promise you the skies... its "promiseware" - don't trust any. If they ask what you are doing now, as an IT bloke you know - "contracting" in Finland.

Once you get a job offer signed and can trust you have a job - then I'd say cart the family over & move. Also, its by far easier when you are there to look at houses etc. evaluate the costs and all that. Bus & train can be cheap or get expensive - cars are cheap but insurance ain't. Also, before you leave Finland, get "all the papers" from the Maistraatti, they write a draft in English if you ask nicely for foreign officials (to get visa/work permit) that says "birth certificate) apostilled and stamped so you get the "paper that doesn't exist" for the missus and the baby. Also you can get a paper proving the marriage etc. Believe me, getting an NI number is about as anal as getting a RP. Also, if your missus is planning to work, well, she can use the same address and phone, its far easier to land a better job after you already have one.

[dave071061]

Some benefits are transferable within the EU for I think it is 3 months, so it might be that even in the UK you can continue to get some financial aid if you are already receiving it here in Finland.

However I wouldn't be too sure that it will be so much easier to find a decent IT job in the UK, Yes lots of jobs advertised but also a much bigger potential employee pool,

[cors187]

Will it be against law, if I don't inform anyone here that I am moving and move siently so, at least Kela money would keep flowing and inform them once I get job ?

.

http://www.kela.fi/in/internet/english. ... enDocument

This section tells you which Kela benefits are available outside Finland and what happens to any benefits you are receiving when you move abroad. The section discusses the most common types of situations. Before you move abroad, you should contact Kela to find out whether the benefits you are receiving can be paid outside Finland.
http://www.kela.fi/in/internet/english. ... enDocument

http://www.kela.fi/in/internet/english. ... enDocument

[tausif.baber]

@Rinso: Are you serious ? getting banned in Finland, seriously I wouldn't care, but I may like to visit sometimes, anyways there are other possibilities of getting visa from France and commute here via Germany.

@Roger: Everybody likes cheese in both hands, so, having permanent residency is what I would like to have, but still its not up-to me. I can do something like visit Finland twice in a year to keep my RP. About the job agencies, I also had calls, but they get off once I say I am in Finland (still I don't get why they call in my Finnish number). I registered my CV in lots of sites there and yes I have had more calls from UK agencies/employers in one month than I had during my entire stay in Finland.

@Cors/Dave: Thanks for the links mate, I don't still buy kela would give some money once they know I am not here. As somebody suggested, keeping my mouth zipped sounds reasonable at this moment, once I have enough money I can pay them back with interest, but all I need is support at the moment.

@Pursuivant: I know you are in UK, thanks for the suggestions. I need visa to visit UK, but I already have one (well not visa but EEA Family permit, I can still travel there with my wife). I have been up in the job hunting for more than month, and yes the recruiter agencies often call me. I'll still try your suggestion of UK address and VOIP redirection. Visiting there and living for few days isn't very difficult, given I can fit in my relatives' couch for night or two. Your suggestion about "Promiseware- don't trust anyone" stuck in my head, so virtually is it too difficult to land the job there ? I am willing to enter as Junior/Graduate too and after the initial entry, it'd all depend on me.

I was initially planning as you said to bring the family once I have job, but it is clearly written in my Permit that my wife should accompany me. As always your suggestions are precious, I will ask maistaraati about the papers, I even asked in the hospital about the birth-certificate when my child was born, no one knew what I was talking about. Really, even the management couldn't reply, they said my child will get get Kela card in letter box. So, I gave up, but I'll try asking to maistraati.

I am getting prepared to move now, applied for European Health Card, now need to find some checkmark what do to next and tick the things done !!!

[Pursuivant]

Ok, so you have had calls in a month, but how many of those even got you shortlisted for a phone interview? Now I don't even see a job advertised some recruiter calls me... within a week 3-4 more recruiters have phoned me and the job is plastered all over by 10 recruiters... theres still just that one damn job, and it was taken already. So "recruiters" are more or less "promiseware"... if its a direct employer you might have some better chances of not being led on a wild goosechase.

It all depends what your exact expertese is, there are jobs out there - but theres also a lot of people after them.

[rinso]

@Rinso: Are you serious ? getting banned in Finland,

It is considered fraud and they could take you to trail.
But getting an extradition is probably to much work so it is easier to settle for a ban.

[tausif.baber]

Ok, so you have had calls in a month, but how many of those even got you shortlisted for a phone interview? Now I don't even see a job advertised some recruiter calls me... within a week 3-4 more recruiters have phoned me and the job is plastered all over by 10 recruiters... theres still just that one damn job, and it was taken already. So "recruiters" are more or less "promiseware"... if its a direct employer you might have some better chances of not being led on a wild goosechase.

I really had exact situation like this, I got lots of calls from some agencies, lots of them also sent me email saying I have 4 -5 jobs for you, please select suitable one and reply to this email. At first I felt it was phising scam, but I followed it up and said I am interested, they then asked me to send me my latest CV for the matching position. Then I laughed my ass off, it is exactly the situation that you said, I call it cold-calling.

I am web developer with PHP and Rails background, so, I also applied for junior and graduate positions too, which landed me few skype interviews from the company. I have been through 2 skype interviews to be exact, one was media publishing who wanted me to cover the nightlight of London (bloody hell they asked for web developer, and were asking me to cover London nightlife when I don't have web development task), which I declined. Other one was cool, who said they'd train me for few months and probably post me in Manchester where they are planning for new branch. But there was cost of training, so, the conclusions are still pending. I'd prefer to land a direct job and wouldn't mind for training too, but simply don't have enough quid to pay them. Is this kind of thing normal in UK ?

[Pursuivant]

Heh, PHP and media publishing and they interviewed you for a reporter job talk about multitasking. Yeah, I have gotten some recruiters "fishing", then some are quite keen at first, like 3-4 emails and phone calls and then they disappear like the proverbial fart into the Sahara desert. Now I have one decent enough to give me a call back and say - sorry didn't hear back from the customer, but thers another "very keen" that made the fading trick after having me sign some paperwork so really... I'd say its "normal" for UK.

The cost of training etc. is just plain BS - what it is, they have a tender out, they are getting the persons ready - if they win the tender they whip up a new office and teams in Mancunian territory - if they don't... whoopsydaisy.

Well, compared to Finland, where you don't get anything, its a difference

[tausif.baber]

Heh, PHP and media publishing and they interviewed you for a reporter job talk about multitasking. Yeah, I have gotten some recruiters "fishing", then some are quite keen at first, like 3-4 emails and phone calls and then they disappear like the proverbial fart into the Sahara desert. Now I have one decent enough to give me a call back and say - sorry didn't hear back from the customer, but thers another "very keen" that made the fading trick after having me sign some paperwork so really... I'd say its "normal" for UK.

The cost of training etc. is just plain BS - what it is, they have a tender out, they are getting the persons ready - if they win the tender they whip up a new office and teams in Mancunian territory - if they don't... whoopsydaisy.

Well, compared to Finland, where you don't get anything, its a difference

So, literally it means 1 employer had 1 job, and 10 agencies publish it in everywhere they could, among 10 the employer selects the 1 candidate referred by 1 agency and 9 other agencies still keep looking for candidates even the post is fulfilled, because they don't get information from employer the vacancy is fulfilled. Now when another among 9 agencies find another candidate to refer but the employer doesn't reply as the position was already fulfilled, ha ha ha Agencies sounds more in deep !"#¤% than candidates.

As you said the training cost sounds something like if they don't win the tender they are still in profit as they earn money via training, and during training they ask us to do the job for them (no need to pay salary as OJT workers do the job). If they happen to win the tender they have workforce ready for them, nice . people are really clever there

[Pursuivant]

So, literally it means 1 employer had 1 job, and 10 agencies publish it in everywhere they could, among 10 the employer selects the 1 candidate referred by 1 agency

Of course not, the job was given to the bosses inlaws cousin, you know, who just graduated college...

As you said the training cost sounds something like if they don't win the tender they are still in profit as they earn money via training, and during training they ask us to do the job for them (no need to pay salary as OJT workers do the job).

Ah, if you are so lucky to get in. Theres 3-6 months probation period, so if the tender falls through... Then they might actually sign some of the new talent on, and have redundancy rounds to get rid of old ballast...

Funniest thing so far is, I have 2 cv's out. in one I am just looking for a regular job, I get offered contract roles. Other one has me listed as a contractor... they offer me permanent roles... as in WTF

[tausif.baber]

Funniest thing so far is, I have 2 cv's out. in one I am just looking for a regular job, I get offered contract roles. Other one has me listed as a contractor... they offer me permanent roles... as in WTF

sounds nice, what if you sign for both ?

seriously, how long would you think it takes to land a first job in UK (well London in this case), if I happen to drop there and start the hunt. I know there ain't any matrix to calculate, but I am asking your opinion, generally how long it might take.

[Pursuivant]

Seriously, how long would you think it takes to land a first job in UK (well London in this case).

Well, I hunted back in 2010 Aug-Dec for a job and landed finally one (but I was looking all over, the Irish economy collapse buggered things up pretty well). So what have your relatives been telling you? Pavements made of gold? Or is it 18-hour days alternating at a car wash and kebab delivery at the cousin's firm? Your missus actually could probably land a job in a few weeks in her niche - a crap job in telemarketing/support callcentre even in London but more jobs "up north". But that'd be 20-25 K a year so nothing to diss first off. You could be the modern daddy and stay home - one person working you get the NI numbers and "into the system" Now you got the problem theres the "1000 unemployed Nokia Engineers" x 10 looking for work as well in your niche.

I'll give you an estimate when and if I score a new job/contract. Its been... umm... 4 weeks now. If you get a really cranky helpdesk answering one day, you know where I ended up

[Adrian42]

Some benefits are transferable within the EU for I think it is 3 months, so it might be that even in the UK you can continue to get some financial aid if you are already receiving it here in Finland.

That's unemployment benefits for EU citizens - irrelevant here.