Moving to Finland. Where to start?

[Noortje]

I'm pretty sure that all my questions have been asked before. I tried to read before posting but in the end, I just couldn't see the wood for the trees anymore. I'm hoping some of you have the time and the energy to help out a newbie.

Our situation:
Me and my husband are married and have two kids. We live in a EU-country and my husband has a full-time job. I'm a stay-at-home mom and I would like to stay home at least untill my kids go to school.
It has always been a dream of mine to move to Finland. I took language lessons, stayed in Finland for one year straight and also for shorter periods so I know a little bit about the country.
My husband foudn a job near Helsinki so we COULD move to Finland if we are willing to take the jump.

Our questions (to start):
What kind of paperwork do we need? Residence Permit? Or something else? Where do we go to fill out all the paperwork?
What kind of benefits will be get and approximatly how much money is it we are talking about? (We're not hoping to get rich but just want a fair idea seeing as we don't have much savings)
How long will it take to get all this paperwork done? What do you do in the mean time?

Can you actually rent a house before having started this paper 'treadmill'?

How much taxes do you generally pay in Finland?

What am I forgetting and can not be forgotten ?

I tried reading KELA website and got what I thought was a good idea of the situation but then I started reading here. I read that some people only got a one year permit? You can't get S-kortti? What about other 'benefits' like this?
I can't seem to find anything about school/kintergarden for my kids (1 and 3 years old about) where could I read about this?

[interleukin]

You don´t write what your citizenships are, but if you are EU, then you don´t need a residence permit. You need to get registered as residents (requires a job or other good reason, should be no problem if your husband has job offers).

[Flossy1978]

Where you from?

Lots of 'what benefits can we get?' questions. Seems to be a rather major focus of your post.

I don't know what you'll get. If your husband has a job, I assume it'll be a decent enough salary to raise your kids and keep a roof over your heads, if it appears you'll be moving here? You wouldn't move here if he were a cleaner, unless you were from a sh*ttier EU country. You won't get any rental help.

And no you can't just get a home that easily. You'll be a foreigner and it could in fact be rather difficult. Be prepared to pay 2-3 months in advanced. There is always paperwork in Finland. ALWAYS.

You have kids you want to stay home with till they are going to school, right? Well, that's till they're seven years old. You'll get nothing once they reach the age of three I believe, if you can get anything at all. I don't know if you can turn up here and get maternity or stay at home monies for an under three year old. Which isn't even that much anyway, maybe 300€ before taxes.

If you put your kids into daycare you will get subsidised daycare costs. YOU WILL NOT GET THE MONEY YOURSELF. Your bill will just be lower than it would be if you paid the full price. And if you put them in daycare and you are just at home, you won't get anything.

I don't even know if you will get the lapsilisa.... money we all get here regardless of income per child. Again, go back to the KELA pages. They can explain all of this.

You won't get unemployment or anything of this nature if you choose to be at home with your children. If you are choosing to live here, then I suggest you forget this idea of staying home till the kids are in school and apply for the integration programme. So you can learn the language and actively participate in this country, ie, pay taxes for the benefits you ask about. And to integrate with Finnish people and society. Once in the programme, you will get a daily allowance. But your kids will be in daycare and you will have to pay some sum for that. And it can take a long time to get into the programme.

There are no big payoffs at tax time or anything regarding kids. If your husband has a job which requires him to pay more than 600€ a year in transport to get there and home, he can claim that on his taxes. And then there is other basic stuff. But nothing which will help you staying home.

Think long and hard if you really want to move here. What, apart from the benefits you want to know you'll get, make you want to move here? And what can you offer to Finland? How will you integrate into society if you are at home? Find out ways how you will do that, before you jump ship from your own country.

And forget benefits..... Think about other things and then think yourself lucky you get any benefits, if you do. As a bonus.... Not what can you get, cause Finland owes you nothing. But if you are lucky and are entitled to benefits, good for you

[Flossy1978]

I forgot. We can't help you with taxes if you don't tell us how much your husband will be making. And it depends on the municipality you live in as well.

If you are EU residents, you don't need resident permits. If I remember correctly from reading here on the boards, you just need to register at the Police Station within three months. I could be wrong.

[Flossy1978]

I forgot also...

School starts in general when the children are about 7.

In daycares there is something called Eskari, which kids can or don't have to go to, the year before school. Almost all kids go. It's for free.

I suggest if you really want to move here, you really don't just stay home with the kids till they start school. It won't be beneficial to their Finnish skills. You can't teach them as you aren't a native Finnish speaker, regardless of how much Finnish you know. The government advocates that you speak your native tongue to your children.

Put the oldest one into daycare. It will be the most beneficial thing to do. And the little one in a while. You don't want them going to school with poor if any Finnish. It will only make their lives more difficult to fit in here.

Within about two years you'll be allowing your 3 year old outside to play alone with kids, if you live in the suburbs, not the city. Knowing Finnish will be really beneficial to him/her making friends.

While the children are in daycare you can make the most of the benefit of this integration programme or go to study Finnish during the day. Go to the unemployment office when you come here and ask them about it.

It really would be better in this case, if you choose to live in Finland to forget the idea of staying home till your kids go to school. Unless you can go to courses in the evening for Finnish and your husband is at home with the kids. But again,that leaves you with the problem of where the kids are going to learn Finnish if they aren't involved in the language on a daily basis? Like in daycare. Daycares are good here. Most of them anyway. Even just a few hours a day will be beneficial to them, even if it goes against your wishes of wanting to stay home with them till they're 7.

Sorry, I posted three times. Kept forgetting all you'd asked LOL.

[Noortje]

Thanks a lot for the replies. I'll try to answer the additional questions and explain myself some more.

We are from Belgium. And indeed I'm focussed on the benefits now. Not because we want to profit from the Finnish system but to get an idea. My husband will have to formulate how much he wants to earn and we want to get about the same as we have in Belgium. But in Belgium I also get some money (about the same: 300 before taxes) because I stay at home for the kids and I probably won’t get this kind of allowance in Finland so we have to think about this as well.

It is true that he will have a decent job but I also think that living in the Helsinki area will be a little bit more expensive then where we are living now. We know that we have to pay in advance, that we have saved up already. (Luckily ) And paperwork won’t be a problem because I know some people living in Finland that will help us out with the paperwork.

I don’t want to burden them with all my questions though so I wanted to get an idea myself before I started to talk to them. We’re going up to visit them in a couple of weeks and I’m looking forward to that!

I’m not expecting to get unemployment benefits myself but I was hoping that healthcare and such would be taken care of. (I’ll read on the Kela page some more for these matters)
Putting my kids in daycare however is something I don’t wish to do until they are at least three years old. That’s about the age when they go to school in Belgium and I could live with the idea of sending them to daycare around that age in Finland. I know that the Finnish system is different so I was already thinking of how I could integrate without having a job: in Belgium you bring your kid to school, see the other parents, do stuff around the school, … and you can make friends like this. But seeing as kids only go to school around the age of seven, this will be rather difficult in Finland.

IF I would put them in daycare: Where can I read about that? Do you get a choice? Are there different kinds of daycare? Do they have a lot of openings? Is there a waiting list? And also: how much would this cost (approximately)?

I know that I have to find a place for my kids to go too. I was just thinking about it the way I know it: school at age of 3 – not 7.

After reading my post through it kinda occurred to me you must think I’m some kind of golddigger or something. Please know that this is not true. I KNOW Finland owes me nothing expect for maybe berries when I go out to pick them . If it where me, I’d move in a heartbeat. But I don’t want to end up living there and then having to come back to Belgium in 6 months.

My reasons for coming to Finland you ask? Because I fell in love with it! School system much better than anything I’m used to, language much more interesting, nature pure, seasons more attractive, … and of course: Joulupukki . I could go on for hours.

My reasons for being reluctant to come: I like what I have in Belgium as well: I work as a volunteer for La Leche League and I’m in the board of an organisation that makes it possible for mothers to come together with other mothers and their small kids with focus on attachment parenting. I’ll miss both of these things a lot if we move.

I wanted to write a lot more but my kids need me right now. You can expect me back soon .
Thanks for your time though! I learned a lot already.

[Flossy1978]

No, I don't think you are a gold digger. But what benefits you get seems to be the first question foreigners ask for.

I don't know about getting Healthcare from KELA. I am not an EU citizen. I have a Permanent Residence's Permit to live here (I'm from Australia). So I am not entirely sure how the EU system of healthcare works when moving between countries. I do know however, that from KELA I got a healthcare card which entitles me to healthcare in other countries if I were to travel there, and KELA would pay for it. I am sure you will benefit from the healthcare system here.

Children usually start talking before the age of two. The earlier a child is integrated into the Finnish language, the easier and better off they will learn it.

To get into daycare you have two choices, government or private. Private you go and apply yourself. Government, I think you can print a form from the city's website you choose to live in and then apply at KELA, I believe. My child went mostly to a private place, so I can't remember the city procedure. He was only there for a very short time in the public one. It can take ages to get a place and you may not get a place even that close to you. Places are in high demand everywhere. They try to put your child as close to your home as they can. Sometimes it can take a while, other times not.

There are also other private daycares like the English speaking ones. But that's not really what you want your kids in. You need them in Finnish environments.

There will be 'kerho' you can take your children to during the weekdays. Like singing groups, mother groups etc. Usually they are buildings attached to parks. If you find such a park, like there are ones in Pohjois-Haaga and Lassila in Helsinki. Both have people working their fulltime who run groups and do after school care. You can go inside and ask how to be apart of groups. Or try your local church. They have groups. No, you don't need to be Lutheran or religious. But you could always just ask. Already it's coming Winter, so it could be all groups are full. But the new year is upon us soon. There might be new groups then.

Many many many children are in daycare by the age of 2. The environment in most daycares is very warm and educational. If you fret about putting them in before the age of three, why not just do it for a few hours a day? Like in the mornings 9-12:00 (they go to nap at 12:00. Usually between 9:00-11:00 they are outside playing or doing some activity). It's not that long and it will give your children plenty of hours worth of Finnish and they'll pick it up easily.

Attachment parenting isn't that big here. Already Finns have been doing a lot of that stuff as it's just natural, and the term just makes it sound like something fancy, when it's just normal natural parenting and we don't think it's anything special. But Finns also are big into teaching their kids independence too. And a lot of children from a young age have a lot of independence. My son was outside playing in the streets by himself by the age of 5 with his friends. But then again, we don't live in Helsinki. And the area was a peaceful quiet place. And it's very safe here for young kids to be outside. I don't know where in Helsinki you will choose to live.

There are no 'bad' areas as in ghettos etc. Crime is very low, especially crime against unknown persons. But again, times are changing and whilst I once lived in Helsinki for about 8 years, I wouldn't move back there. I don't care for the city life anymore. Or all that compacted suburbia. I like where I live, even if it means a 27km one way drive to work everyday LOL.

Good luck.

[cors187]

I think KELA is simple as your husband paying his tax and "other" contributions, then he applies to KELA and by way of proof of Marriage you go in to KELA too.

[Noortje]

I do agree that daycare can be good for kids. Right now, I'm counting the days for school to start for my oldest son because he is ready to start going and is in need of the challenge. So I will try to find a daycare where they can go but it seems that the situation over there is about the same as it is here: quite long waitinglists.
We have time though, so this will sort itself out I'm sure. Is the difference in prices big between private and public ones? (In Belgium the private ones cost quite a lot: 500 EUR a month is no expection.) I'm not scared about the language barrier though because we call to Finland only once a week and yet my son d. can use some Finnish words

I read some more about moving and healthcare and I think I figured it out mostly. I'll be in Finland in a couple of weeks so if I still have questions I can just go out and ask them to the right persons I guess.
For the moment, I know enough about these things.

I used to live near Rovaniemi and I always thought that if and when I would be moving back to Finland it would be in that area. But I'm happy that my husband found a possible job ANYWHERE in Finland so no complaints here.
Do you have any idea what areas are nice (maybe a little bit more 'rural') to live in but still okay to go to work by public transportation? Our next big step will be finding a place to live. After which I'll have to figure out how we'll do the moving itself. (Not looking forward to this part)

Which reminds me of something: how about my drivers licence? I have a EU-license so I guess I can use mine but do I need to go to some kind of office to change it for a Finnish version (I now have a Belgian version of course). Do I need to take additional lessons? (Apart from the fact that it would be usefull to take some lessons of course )

Are we forgetting something major here?
- Job check
- Place to live
- Health insurance
- Car
- Daycare for the kids (How about school later? are there waiting lists for schools? ... )
- ..

How about these integreation courses? Do I need to take one? What to expect?

[Rip]

So EU citizens, one of you has a job? Then the registration thing should be without a problem, as well las the social benefits.
First the taxes: http://prosentti.vero.fi/VPL2013/Sivut/ ... ieli=en-US

Social benefits, for two kids, mum stays at home with them, dad earns enough that the family is not considered "poor":
Childbenefit (lapsilisä) about 220€/month total (tax free)
http://www.kela.fi/web/en/child-benefit_amount

Home care allowance, if at least one of the kids is under three years (and stays at home): 337€ for the first kid, 65-100€ for the second one (if he is also at home) from KELA (some tax is due on that).
http://www.kela.fi/web/en/child-home-ca ... nce_amount

The city where you live may pay something on top of that, The current Helsinki benefits you see in the "Helsinki supplement" column here: http://www.hel.fi/hki/Vaka/en/Home+Care

The income tied maximum day care fees (you pay the maximum already starting from rather modest income) in municipal care in Helsinki are currently EUR 264 for first child and EUR 198 for the second one.
http://www.hel.fi/hki/Vaka/en/Daycare+i ... ycare+Fees

If the kids are at day care and you're an unemployed job seeker with out no work history here, then you'd be entitled to this: http://www.kela.fi/web/en/labour-market-subsidy

More or less everything listed here may change at some later date.

[Pursuivant]

Being EU its all pretty straightforward. Exchanging licences etc. Its right papers, right office... Especially if you fon't want anything special like French language school the kids will get placed in the local one. The real school starts at 7, or you are obliged to start school at 7, but theres 'play school' at age 6 to help get the kids into routine.

If you want hbe Finnish classes etc. and onto the integration plan, you need to be "officially unemployed" which means you are in principle "available to work". If you refuse they don't care but will say "no" quite easy. And if you live in Finland long enough they don't give integration... Was it 2 years or 3 as you should have learned by then...

Besides which, in Finland your husband must be a director driving a mercedes and living in a palace for to be able to keep a wife at home, so I wouldn't worry.

[Rip]

Do you have any idea what areas are nice (maybe a little bit more 'rural') to live in but still okay to go to work by public transportation?

For most part those two things don't go together. Were would husband work now? (It is probably not a good idea to maximize the daily commuting time by living on the other side of the capital area)

Which reminds me of something: how about my drivers licence? I have a EU-license so I guess I can use mine but do I need to go to some kind of office to change it for a Finnish version (I now have a Belgian version of course). Do I need to take additional lessons?

The Belgian license is valid here as it is. No need to even change it.

(Apart from the fact that it would be usefull to take some lessons of course )

Maybe. I don't know what the others would say, but I think I'd recommend studded tires for the winter. They'd be worse than the alternative for over 90% of the time (around Helsinki), but you'd less likely to kill yourself when it is not one of those times.

[Rick1]

I would sleep another night over it. Most foreigners (with Finnish partner) already have a huge problem with living here, learning language, getting work,not treated as a full person in some cases. IF you do not have any connection here (both foreigner) and come from an easy country as Belgium....Also good to know; does your husband has a period contract or 'ongoing' , since in these times 'ongoing' can be very short. less then 4 months or if you make it after 4 months it might stop next week. Every day you can read about many layoffs here. Earlier they were put on holiday but that must have gone old fashioned.

[misu]

Besides which, in Finland your husband must be a director driving a mercedes and living in a palace for to be able to keep a wife at home, so I wouldn't worry.

I keep hearing this, but doesn't it depend on what sort of lifestyle a family leads? I find it hard to believe that a family that eschews luxuries and frivolous consumer goods and lives minimalistically/frugally can not get by on one income in Finland. Not every family wants multiple kids, multiple cars, iphones and ipads and TVs, annual summer holiday trips, etc.

[Pursuivant]

I find it hard to believe that a family that eschews luxuries and frivolous consumer goods and lives minimalistically/frugally can not get by on one income in Finland. Not every family wants multiple kids, multiple cars, iphones and ipads and TVs, annual summer holiday trips, etc.

So if you want to live as a piss-poor hippie, why in Finland and not somewhere south where you don't have to worry about heating the house and you can grow your greens around the year? Changing a ghetto in Bellgium to one in Finland makes no sense as you get a far better quality ghetto with an income in Belgium. Finnish ghettos don't even have riots.