finland or netherlands

andttrip · Post by **andttrip** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:30 pm

Dear all

one of my friend has got tuition free offer from tilburg university, netherlands, for master in finance. at the same time, she wish to apply for aalto university and hanken for the same program as she considers finland is much more peaceful than the netherlands, although she can speak fluent german. If you were her, would you go to the netherlands without hesitation? is job market in the netherlands much better than that in finland? welcome your suggestions. thanks.

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rinso · Post by **rinso** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:13 pm

is job market in the netherlands much better than that in finland?

Definitely. Especially if you're not fluent in the local language.

although she can speak fluent german

Big advantage in NL compared to Fi.

free offer from tilburg university,

Tilburg has a good name on financial studies.

rrothhav · Post by **rrothhav** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:29 pm

Honestly, if she speaks German I would say Netherlands. I love Finland, and Job opportunities in Finland are fair, especially since graduates from Finnish Schools have good residence permit opportunities (they are considered entitled to be as part of the labor market just like EU and Finns) but language is a big issue.
After three years here I am near decent spoken level.
If I had the advantage of speaking the language somewhere, for sure it would have to be that place. With language many more doors are open to employment. Your friend can always do an exchange, or internship in Finland while studying in Netherlands and see if she likes it here, and sees the language as being learn-able before actually moving.

Hippo · Post by **Hippo** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:29 am

Double post

Hippo · Post by **Hippo** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:34 am

andttrip wrote:Dear all

one of my friend has got tuition free offer from tilburg university, netherlands, for master in finance. at the same time, she wish to apply for aalto university and hanken for the same program as she considers finland is much more peaceful than the netherlands, although she can speak fluent german. If you were her, would you go to the netherlands without hesitation? is job market in the netherlands much better than that in finland? welcome your suggestions. thanks.

How come she has received offers already? I thought Tilburg didn't announce results until spring? But yeah, I've been to both countries and absolutely loved Helsinki (haven't really seen much else). Though I don't think this should factor into her decision.

rrothhav wrote: I love Finland, and Job opportunities in Finland are fair, especially since graduates from Finnish Schools have good residence permit opportunities (they are considered entitled to be as part of the labor market just like EU and Finns) but language is a big issue.

(Bolded Part) Absolutely not true. All the non-EEA nationals get is additional 6 months to stay after graduation, but that don't mean jack in terms of ease of labor market access in Finland. You still need a find a position at a company that is willing to do all the resident permit paperwork and wait for you to be cleared. If you haven't found a job by the time you graduated, you won't find one during the extra 6-month window. And you indeed won't find anything unless you're an engineer or scientist with a industry-related niche, which the person OP mentions in his post is not.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:22 am

Hippo wrote:
rrothhav wrote: I love Finland, and Job opportunities in Finland are fair, especially since graduates from Finnish Schools have good residence permit opportunities (they are considered entitled to be as part of the labor market just like EU and Finns) but language is a big issue.
(Bolded Part) Absolutely not true. All the non-EEA nationals get is additional 6 months to stay after graduation, but that don't mean jack in terms of ease of labor market access in Finland. You still need a find a position at a company that is willing to do all the resident permit paperwork and wait for you to be cleared. If you haven't found a job by the time you graduated, you won't find one during the extra 6-month window. And you indeed won't find anything unless you're an engineer or scientist with a industry-related niche, which the person OP mentions in his post is not.

If you've graduated from local school then if you can find a job, any job, police or migri will not ask the opinion of the employment office if there is actually a need for a foreigner to fill that job. So in that sense it does matter and it does make you part of the local labour force.

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:55 am

I'd go with Tillburg, but Hanken is also not bad. It all depends what you aim for. While the Netherlands is "busier" it also has more job opportunities ( as well as in the neighbouring countries). Then again finding a niche in Scandinavia isn't impossible, as while there are the opportunities in Central Europe, theres also fierce competition

Hippo · Post by **Hippo** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:21 pm

Rip wrote:
Hippo wrote:
rrothhav wrote: I love Finland, and Job opportunities in Finland are fair, especially since graduates from Finnish Schools have good residence permit opportunities (they are considered entitled to be as part of the labor market just like EU and Finns) but language is a big issue.
(Bolded Part) Absolutely not true. All the non-EEA nationals get is additional 6 months to stay after graduation, but that don't mean jack in terms of ease of labor market access in Finland. You still need a find a position at a company that is willing to do all the resident permit paperwork and wait for you to be cleared. If you haven't found a job by the time you graduated, you won't find one during the extra 6-month window. And you indeed won't find anything unless you're an engineer or scientist with a industry-related niche, which the person OP mentions in his post is not.
If you've graduated from local school then if you can find a job, any job, police or migri will not ask the opinion of the employment office if there is actually a need for a foreigner to fill that job. So in that sense it does matter and it does make you part of the local labour force.

Thanks for the information. I was just never able to locate a phrase on migri's website mentioning that when someone's graduated from a university in Finland the requirement (that companies need to prove there is a need for a foreigner to fill the vacancy in question) is waived. All I see is this: http://www.migri.fi/working_in_finland/ ... om_finland (It basically says "If you have completed a degree in Finland, you may apply for a new residence permit from the police or the embassy on the grounds of work after you have found a job." which doesn't seem to award much of a privilege to local graduates; virtually anyone "may apply" for a residence permit.)

Perhaps the Finnish version of the website has more clarity on this issue and that's where you got that information from.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:03 am

Hippo wrote:
Rip wrote: If you've graduated from local school then if you can find a job, any job, police or migri will not ask the opinion of the employment office if there is actually a need for a foreigner to fill that job. So in that sense it does matter and it does make you part of the local labour force.
Thanks for the information. I was just never able to locate a phrase on migri's website mentioning that when someone's graduated from a university in Finland the requirement (that companies need to prove there is a need for a foreigner to fill the vacancy in question) is waived. All I see is this: http://www.migri.fi/working_in_finland/ ... om_finland (It basically says "If you have completed a degree in Finland, you may apply for a new residence permit from the police or the embassy on the grounds of work after you have found a job." which doesn't seem to award much of a privilege to local graduates; virtually anyone "may apply" for a residence permit.)

Perhaps the Finnish version of the website has more clarity on this issue and that's where you got that information from.

Hmm... It could be stated with more clarity. This is what it is based on anyway:
(Aliens Act, section 79)

(4) Aliens who have received a degree
or other qualification in Finland have a right
to gainful employment with a residence
permit issued under section 45(1)(1) or
section 47(1)(2) without the matter being
given the consideration laid down in section
72(1). (34/2006)

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/kaannokset ... 040301.pdf

Hippo · Post by **Hippo** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:56 pm

Thanks again.

Speaking of which, I am interested in hearing experiences of those (non-EEA natioanls) who used this scheme.

Poison Ivy · Post by **Poison Ivy** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:43 pm

How does speaking fluent German have advantages in The Netherlands???????? Dutch people speak DUTCH!!!

interleukin · Post by **interleukin** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:54 pm

Poison Ivy wrote:How does speaking fluent German have advantages in The Netherlands???????? Dutch people speak DUTCH!!!

At least the languages are related.... unlike Finnish and any other language (except Estonian).

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