Shoplifting issue

sk81210 · Post by **sk81210** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:29 pm

Seems one of my friend is in problem, 2 days back she ate nuts abt 100gms (?) in the shop and came out of the shop with out paying. Some guy from the shop came, and immediately guards came and they took her in to some room where she was kept for somewhile, collected information ( that guy wrote some complaint letter which was given to police) then cops were called. The cops took her to the station, and gave some penal notice (myymälävarkaus, I dont know it is the right word, just got from google.) where she was aked to pay fine for some 100+ euros, then she is free to leave.

Ok, she is too frightened, crying, not sleeping what not..

1) She is worried whether this shoplifting will enter in to criminal records ?
2) Will she have any problem leaving or entering in to finland or will this affect if she wants to apply visa for other country (because she got plans to move after an yr to US)

I tried to google abt this issue, but did not find much information about charges in finland.

If anyone knows the links or info abt shoplifting in finland..posting here will help.

**Sponsor:**

007 · Post by **007** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:00 pm

sk81210 wrote:Seems one of my friend is in problem, 2 days back she ate nuts abt 100gms (?) in the shop and came out of the shop with out paying. Some guy from the shop came, and immediately guards came and they took her in to some room where she was kept for somewhile, collected information ( that guy wrote some complaint letter which was given to police) then cops were called. The cops took her to the station, and gave some penal notice (myymälävarkaus, I dont know it is the right word, just got from google.) where she was aked to pay fine for some 100+ euros, then she is free to leave.

Ok, she is too frightened, crying, not sleeping what not..

1) She is worried whether this shoplifting will enter in to criminal records ?
2) Will she have any problem leaving or entering in to finland or will this affect if she wants to apply visa for other country (because she got plans to move after an yr to US)

I tried to google abt this issue, but did not find much information about charges in finland.

If anyone knows the links or info abt shoplifting in finland..posting here will help.

shoplifting is not considered crime in Finlnd, or just a petty crime and can be got away with with just a fine. Many youngsters get caught for shoplifting but police or shopowners are helpless to do anything about it as far as i Know. it's because some green (perhaps others too) think that mainly poor will suffer if shoplifters are to be punished harshly. in this light, i don't think your friendly is in deep shiit

take, however, a note that I am in no way encourging shoplifting or suggesting that your friend is clean in the police book....

sk81210 · Post by **sk81210** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:16 pm

Thanks 007 for your reply, I wills sent this post link to her.

It seems the cop was very cool and said its not that big deal that she can leave after paying fine, when she was crying on the way to station.

Do you have official link or website where I can get more information on this

007 · Post by **007** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:38 pm

sk81210 wrote:Thanks 007 for your reply, I wills sent this post link to her.

It seems the cop was very cool and said its not that big deal that she can leave after paying fine, when she was crying on the way to station.

Do you have official link or website where I can get more information on this

3 § (24.8.1990/769)
Näpistys

Jos varkaus, huomioon ottaen anastetun omaisuuden arvo tai muut rikokseen liittyvät seikat, on kokonaisuutena arvostellen vähäinen, rikoksentekijä on tuomittava näpistyksestä sakkoon.

Yritys on rangaistava.
(from Finlex)

google translate the above. As far as I know, she will not have any criminal record, but she will definitely be in the police book. If you have a criminal record, you might have problem getting certain jobs or perhaps renewing permits etc. When an act is punishable by a fine only e.g. traffic fines etc. it does not stay in the criminal record.

sk81210 · Post by **sk81210** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:30 pm

007 wrote:
sk81210 wrote:Thanks 007 for your reply, I wills sent this post link to her.

It seems the cop was very cool and said its not that big deal that she can leave after paying fine, when she was crying on the way to station.

Do you have official link or website where I can get more information on this
3 § (24.8.1990/769)
Näpistys

Jos varkaus, huomioon ottaen anastetun omaisuuden arvo tai muut rikokseen liittyvät seikat, on kokonaisuutena arvostellen vähäinen, rikoksentekijä on tuomittava näpistyksestä sakkoon.

Yritys on rangaistava.
(from Finlex)

google translate the above. As far as I know, she will not have any criminal record, but she will definitely be in the police book. If you have a criminal record, you might have problem getting certain jobs or perhaps renewing permits etc. When an act is punishable by a fine only e.g. traffic fines etc. it does not stay in the criminal record.

This is the one I got from translation:

petty larceny

If theft, taking into account the value of the stolen property or other offense, has been slight as a whole, the offender shall be sentenced to a fine for petty theft.

An attempt is punishable.

Ok, the goodthing is it wont be in criminal records, thats the thing she is most worried abt because she says when you are applying for visa for any countries they ask, did you have any criminal record?

I kno she has done very stupid mistake knowingly at the age of 30, but as a friend I am trying to help her not to do this silly things again to avoid big dangers in life

Thankyou again.

Honest · Post by **Honest** » Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:10 am

I think first time you get a warning, and may be pay some fine along with the price, next time you pay double the price of the stolen item. If you are caught 3rd (or 4th) time then you visit the jail. It's not in your criminal history but it is in police record, that's how they know that if it is the first time or a repeat.

sk81210 · Post by **sk81210** » Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:34 pm

Ok, thanks a lot for the reply.

She is gonna apply for continuous permit in couple of months, there is a doubt about a section in application form:

1)Have you ever been convicted of an offence and sentenced to punishment

Does she has to say YES or NO for this question..?

Please let us know..

Honest · Post by **Honest** » Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:47 pm

sk81210 wrote:
1)Have you ever been convicted of an offence and sentenced to punishment

Does she has to say YES or NO for this question..? [/b]

Please let us know..

Answer to your question is already there. Has she ever been sentenced ( gone to jail) ?

sk81210 · Post by **sk81210** » Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:20 pm

Honest wrote:
sk81210 wrote:
1)Have you ever been convicted of an offence and sentenced to punishment

Does she has to say YES or NO for this question..? [/b]

Please let us know..
Answer to your question is already there. Has she ever been sentenced ( gone to jail) ?

No, she didn't go

Hämeen Hitain · Post by **Hämeen Hitain** » Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:33 pm

A fine is also a punishment.

cors187 · Post by **cors187** » Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:16 pm

sk81210 wrote:Ok, thanks a lot for the reply.

She is gonna apply for continuous permit in couple of months, there is a doubt about a section in application form:

1)Have you ever been convicted of an offence and sentenced to punishment

Does she has to say YES or NO for this question..?

Please let us know..

She says "No" , its a non conviction penalty..

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:26 pm

cors187 wrote:
sk81210 wrote:Ok, thanks a lot for the reply.

She is gonna apply for continuous permit in couple of months, there is a doubt about a section in application form:

1)Have you ever been convicted of an offence and sentenced to punishment

Does she has to say YES or NO for this question..?

Please let us know..
She says "No" , its a non conviction penalty..

Considering contents of the application forms, it seems the question isn't really about continuous but permanent permit, and section 57 of Aliens Act. Reading also the original government proposal, it seems that A) Yes, she should tick "YES", B) it will not matter when the matter is decided:

Pykälän 1 momentin mukaan pysyvää oleskelulupaa ei myönnettäisi, jos ulkomaalainen olisi todettu syyllistyneen rikokseen tai hän olisi syylliseksi epäiltynä rikoksesta, josta on säädetty rangaistukseksi vankeutta. Vireillä oleva rikosasia olisi este pysyvän oleskeluluvan myöntämiseksi niin kauan, kunnes poliisi on esitutkintalain (449/1987) mukaan päättänyt olla saattamatta asiaa syyttäjän harkittavaksi, syyttäjä on oikeudenkäynnistä rikosasioissa annetun lain mukaan tehnyt päätöksen syyttämättä jättämisestä tai tuomioistuin on oikeudenkäynnistä rikosasioissa annetun lain mukaisesti hylännyt syytteen tai rikoslain perusteella jättänyt ulkomaalaisen rangaistukseen tuomitsematta.

Ulkomaalaisen syyllistyminen esimerkiksi varkauteen tai liikenteen vaarantamiseen olisi este pysyvän oleskeluluvan myöntämiselle. Sen sijaan syyllistyminen näpistykseen tai liikennerikkomukseen ei olisi tällainen este. Jos ulkomaalainen olisi toistuvasti tuomittu rangaistukseen rikoksesta, rikostunnusmerkistössä määritellyllä rangaistuslajilla ei olisi merkitystä. Kummassakaan tapauksessa ei olisi merkitystä sillä, onko rangaistus tuomittu tuomioistuinkäsittelyssä vai rangaistusvaatimusmenettelyssä.

Momentin 3 ja 4 kohdan soveltaminen edellyttäisi toistuvuutta. Samasta teosta johtuvat useat rikosepäilyt eivät sinänsä olisi esteenä pysyvän oleskeluluvan myöntämiselle.

Pykälän 2 momentin mukaan sen toteamiseksi, että ulkomaalainen on 1 momentin mukaisesti syyllistynyt rikokseen tai rikoksiin, päätöksen ei tarvitse olla lainvoimainen. Lisäksi harkittaessa oleskeluluvan myöntämisen esteitä olisi aina otettava huomioon rikollisen teon laatu ja vakavuus.

Pykälän 3 momentissa säädettäisiin siitä, milloin pysyvän oleskeluluvan myöntämisen esteet poistuvat. Jos ulkomaalainen olisi tuomittu ehdottomaan vankeusrangaistukseen, pysyvä oleskelulupa voitaisiin myöntää kolmen vuoden kuluttua siitä, kun rangaistus on kokonaan suoritettu. Ne periaatteet, joiden mukaan rangaistus on kokonaan suoritettu ilmenevät rangaistusten suorittamista koskevasta lainsäädännöstä. Esimerkiksi rangaistusten täytäntöönpanosta annetun lain (39/1889) 17 §:n perusteella vanki on täydellisesti kärsinyt rangaistuksensa, kun ehdonalaisen vapauden koeaika on päättynyt.

Sakon muuntorangaistusta ei tässä laissa rinnastettaisi suoranaisesti ehdottomaan vankeusrangaistukseen. Muuntorangaistuksen taustalla oleva rikollinen teko saattaisi olla ehdolliseen vankeuteen johtavaa tekoa lievempi, sillä muunnon perusteena on yleensä henkilön varattomuus.

Jos ulkomaalainen on tuomittu ehdolliseen vankeuteen, pysyvä oleskelulupa voitaisiin myöntää kahden vuoden kuluttua rangaistukseen liittyvän koeajan päätyttyä.

Muissa tapauksissa pysyvä oleskelulupa voitaisiin myöntää, kun rikoksen tekopäivästä olisi kulunut yli kaksi vuotta.

Tullynessle Turnip · Post by **Tullynessle Turnip** » Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:41 pm

"2 days back she ate nuts abt 100gms (?) in the shop and came out of the shop with out paying."

Please explain!

1) were the nuts in a packet and she opened it? what did she do with the packet and rest of the nuts if packet was over 100 grammes, or was it a 100g packet?

2) were the nuts loose, and she just stuck her hand in and shoved them in her mouth?

3) what kind of nuts?

4) why did she walk out without paying? just absentmindedness/forgot?

5) somewhat harsh sentence 100 Euros for a few nuts? Quite a miniscule "crime/offense" compared to what Finnish politicians and company bosses are stealing every day! What about the criminal profit the shop is making anyway?! 200g bar of Fazer sininen chocolate in R-kiosk 3,70e, S-Market same item 2,10e! No wonder R-Kiosk can afford all those television adverts! I piss on R-kiosk.

jahasjahas · Post by **jahasjahas** » Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:31 am

Tullynessle Turnip wrote:I piss on R-kiosk.

Don't get caught, you might have to pay a fine!

atas · Post by **atas** » Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:28 am

Tullynessle Turnip wrote: I piss on R-kiosk.

So, that was you!

And what's wrong with having to beg for a bag? Are you supposed to carry on your arms all these convenience groceries? I get bored asking for a bag all the time, and then sometimes get strange looks about it. At least I go to stockmann deli and they offer you a bag sometimes (the key word is "pussi") but now I know the trick and always grab the bag myself. Free bags, yeah!

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