Regarding Unemployment benefits (KASSA) while studying MSc

thinkprocessfocus · Post by **thinkprocessfocus** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:44 pm

Case solved.

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cors187 · Post by **cors187** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:14 pm

thinkprocessfocus wrote:
Anyone who had similar experiences?

I think everyone who is fishing 2 holes in the ice wishes they never told anyone they were.
There seems to be other threads here reporting the same conclusion as what your saying.

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:22 pm

The lady asked and you told her. You shot yourself, hoping the gun wasn't loaded does not help.

thinkprocessfocus · Post by **thinkprocessfocus** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:35 pm

It was a stupid mistake but I cannot lie, so there.
Another question is, if I resign from my studies, and will be a full time jobseeker like now anyways, will I be entitled to the Kassa money again? My membership with them is still valid and I plan to keep it valid.

betelgeuse · Post by **betelgeuse** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:46 pm

thinkprocessfocus wrote:It was a stupid mistake but I cannot lie, so there.
Another question is, if I resign from my studies, and will be a full time jobseeker like now anyways, will I be entitled to the Kassa money again? My membership with them is still valid and I plan to keep it valid.

I doubt the previous commenters expected you to lie. The Finnish system want's to neatly categorize everyone so most rules don't account for doing many things at the same time. Seeking a job = unemployment benefits, studying = student benefits. Have you looked at getting student financial aid?

thinkprocessfocus · Post by **thinkprocessfocus** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:54 pm

I haven't looked into it because from my experience Kela needs me to have ECTS to be able to grant me financial aid. Since my start of my unemployment I took zero courses bec. I don't want to jeopardize my Kassa (funny thing is, I actually called Kassa prior to my application and they said it won't be a problem, the same thing was said to me by the first TE officer in my first application, he assured that since it is part-time studies, it wont be a problem.) 6 months later the lady declines my Kassa benefits.

so now Im wondering, if i resign my studies and the next registration, will I get the same Kassa benefit I used to get prior?

betelgeuse · Post by **betelgeuse** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:31 pm

thinkprocessfocus wrote:I haven't looked into it because from my experience Kela needs me to have ECTS to be able to grant me financial aid. Since my start of my unemployment I took zero courses bec. I don't want to jeopardize my Kassa (funny thing is, I actually called Kassa prior to my application and they said it won't be a problem, the same thing was said to me by the first TE officer in my first application, he assured that since it is part-time studies, it wont be a problem.) 6 months later the lady declines my Kassa benefits.

so now Im wondering, if i resign my studies and the next registration, will I get the same Kassa benefit I used to get prior?

Yes you need to have credits to get student financial aid.

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/2 ... 1290#L2P10

Under section 10 you are not allowed to get unemployment benefits by default for full time studies and the law qualifies all MSc studies as full time. However, subsection 3 seems to apply (you are available to take full time work regardless of being enrolled, work history also helps).

Yes I think it's likely that if you resign studies, you should continue to get Kassa. However, the logical step seems to be to make an appeal to TE-toimisto. If you win the appeal, you will not loose any months. Did you get the decision to stop paying you in writing? If so, it should have instructions on how to appeal.

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/alkup/2012 ... Pid2190868

Your municipality should have an interest in helping you with this because otherwise with no income, they would end up paying you toimeentulotuki. If you have no plans to ever get credits for MSc then seems logical to resign and make things easier in the future.

thinkprocessfocus · Post by **thinkprocessfocus** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:46 pm

Thanks a lot for your reply. I will appeal my case once I get the formal decision. It has been stressful for me what happened.

I did not resign my studies bec. my attendance was confirmed prior and during that time I have employment. Now I will do so when this is giving me troubles.

Btw, may I know what you mean by losing months? Are these the days that are part of the 500 days you are allowed to get the money, worst case scenario? Im really hoping to get a job soon but Im also planning for the worse so Im thinking these things. My Finnish colleagues had also been out of jobs more than a year now as well.

I checked my transcripts and I do not have any credits during my unemployment period. As this will not be qualified as kela grant and as it is a part-time studies, I hope they will reconsider my case.

betelgeuse · Post by **betelgeuse** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:58 am

thinkprocessfocus wrote: Btw, may I know what you mean by losing months? Are these the days that are part of the 500 days you are allowed to get the money, worst case scenario?

That if they first cancel paying you because of studies and then you apply to get back on, there might be a time when you get nothing. If you appeal and win, they will retroactively pay you what you are owned.

thinkprocessfocus wrote: I checked my transcripts and I do not have any credits during my unemployment period. As this will not be qualified as kela grant and as it is a part-time studies, I hope they will reconsider my case.

You can only apply for student financial aid from the beginning of the month when you apply any way. I tried to explain to you that the law for unemployment benefits has no concept of part-time MSc studies so there's little different to a full time program.

Evaphio · Post by **Evaphio** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:39 pm

Hm.... I was just thinking about the same. I am a student, but I want to take time off... for 2 years I will just register as absent from my programms.

What if you are registed as absent?

thinkprocessfocus · Post by **thinkprocessfocus** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:00 pm

I don't think that is possible. From what I understood, I should resign myself from the program. Meaning quit it and unregister myself completely. That's what I will do now and will just re apply once I get new employment.

enkeligod · Post by **enkeligod** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:57 am

thinkprocessfocus wrote:I don't think that is possible. From what I understood, I should resign myself from the program. Meaning quit it and unregister myself completely. That's what I will do now and will just re apply once I get new employment.

If you cannot find a job immediately, try and search for a työkokeilu place with a company , the application forms are available at TE-Toimisto this can compensate for your unemployment fund income but will be payed to you when you start your työkokeilu . You can be doing your Työkokeilu ( 6hrs a day) and also be studying your masters. Catching 2 bids with one stone is possible dont resign your program.

Note seal your lips sometimes!

betelgeuse · Post by **betelgeuse** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:14 pm

roger_roger wrote: So, don't trust TE, they are bunch of arseholes and head to Municipality social benefit, I don't know exactly what its called but if you google translate (100% sure these kind of information would be only in Finnish) the municipality website that you live, there should be information about it.

Depending on the municipality Swedish is also an option for the information (though not of help for OP). You most likely find the page by googling for toimeentulotuki <municipality> (for example toimeentulotuki Espoo).

thinkprocessfocus · Post by **thinkprocessfocus** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:08 pm

roger_roger wrote: OP: If you can prove TE that you don't have any ECTS in last 1 year you can easily appeal and keep the benefits. My friend was in similar situation and he didn't have idea about municipality benefits and lived for 7 months eating chinese noodles soup. So, don't trust TE, they are bunch of arseholes and head to Municipality social benefit, I don't know exactly what its called but if you google translate (100% sure these kind of information would be only in Finnish) the municipality website that you live, there should be information about it.

Thanks for the info. I sent them my original transcript dated recently and it shows there that the last ECTS was marked on June 2013 (academic year 2012-2013).
My unemployment begun on summer 2013, so technically for this academic year (2013-2014) and at the start of my unemployment till now, I am enrolled but I do not have any ECTS and this what I explained to them.

Would you think this would be enough or they will look into the 1 year as (Jan2013 - Jan2014 - different academic years) because from Jan 2013 until June 2013 I was still employed and was not eligible for any aid?

I also explained to them that prior my application, I double-checked with Kassa and the TE-toimisto (my first meeting during the summer) that I am taking MSc studies and that it was a part-time studies (I only understood now from Betelguese that officially all studies are considered full-time).

Anyway, these people told me, "yeah, that's no problem. you can still get your benefits". I believed them and had I known, I could've had resign from my studies.
(the first TE-guy from last summer didn't even bothered to update my profile, he just looked at my employment certificates, then type something in his computer and off I go).

So that's why I didn't resign from my studies, I am only enrolled but I don't have any courses as to not have complications with my benefits to be safe - true enough, it would become a problem now.
(I can understand that some people may feel that with this situation, one can cheat the system.)

And you're right, the TE lady seemed very helpful and sympathetic, she didn't mention anything to me when I was at her office, she asked and I answered because of good faith and diligence.
But then when I got home, she sent me an email about my studies being the reason to cancel my benefits.

I am waiting for the official "lausunto" because from the last "lausunto" the decision is that they are deciding to cancel my benefits.
I am crossing my fingers and hoping that they'll consider it otherwise with no ECTS, I am not also able to apply for student grant.

thinkprocessfocus · Post by **thinkprocessfocus** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:46 pm

My worst case scenario would be this:

I am not eligible for unemployment benefits.
I am not eligible for student grant.
I need to pay back what I received from the last half year.

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