Professional available without needing expat benefit

ErinM · Post by **ErinM** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:22 am

Hi,

I am writing this as I am seriously looking for a job in Finland. My sister is moving to Finland to study, and it will be so cruel if I turn her study passion/future career down - so I have decided to come with her to Finland as supporting. I know it sounds weird, but its just the thing I suppose any one in my position will do for his/her family. Yet, I do think that moving to Finland will be a good choice for myself also.

I hold a bachelor degree, double degree in Management and Finance from New Zaeland - lived and worked there for 6 years before got a MBA degree here in Vietnam. I have been back and working in Vietnam for 3 years, in the field of Business Development, Multi-platform Marketing, TV, Digital and Communication. My professional career has been going well for the past 4 years of working, so I am confident in offering my ability, enthusiasm and experience to any next employer in Finland. I know it will be troublesome for employers in Finland to offer me a job ( with all that job offer, visa supporting, etc...) hence I will not ask for any expat benefit, or any extra benefit that expat normally ask, but to have just normal paid rate that you pay to your employee.

I have been sending my CV to some companies in Finland, as well as looking at some social network page - yet I believe this community is much stronger

I am open to discuss in further, so do reply here, or send me a message.

thanks Erin M.

**Sponsor:**

GermanInHelsinki · Post by **GermanInHelsinki** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:31 pm

It is of course very uncommon in Finland that a brother wants to come with her sister, a woman is of course expected to be able to come alone.

Without speaking Finnish fluently, your job chances in Finland are of course very low. In the current bad economic situation, it is of course even worse.

You are of course not allowed to start working in Finland before you got a positive decision on the Residence Permit for our job.

Anyone offering you a job in Finland would of course have to keep it open for you for 4-5 months until you got a decision (positive or negative) on your Residence Permit application for this job. This is of course the main extra benefit expats usually ask for.

ErinM · Post by **ErinM** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:52 pm

Hi, so by saying "Anyone offering you a job in Finland would of course have to keep it open for you for 4-5 months until you got a decision (positive or negative) on your Residence Permit application for this job. This is of course the main extra benefit expats usually ask for." => you mean the employer need to keep the job open, without having any other person fill in, in a period of 4-5months? then after I have my RP, I can than come over to work on that job? I didnt know that as the extra benefit that expat would ask for. coz if in my case, I am able to ask for housing, transportation, etc...as extra benefit, but I wont do that already.

betelgeuse · Post by **betelgeuse** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:23 pm

GermanInHelsinki wrote:It is of course very uncommon in Finland that a brother wants to come with her sister, a woman is of course expected to be able to come alone.

While Finns usually act independently, I don't think people here would think any less of the OP and sister coming around together. OP: GermanInHelsinki puts of course to every sentence so they should not be given any value.

GermanInHelsinki wrote: Without speaking Finnish fluently, your job chances in Finland are of course very low. In the current bad economic situation, it is of course even worse.

The OP is educated and has work experience. Knowing Finnish helps but I wouldn't rule out demand for something like his skill set.

GermanInHelsinki wrote: You are of course not allowed to start working in Finland before you got a positive decision on the Residence Permit for our job.

GermanInHelsinki is of course wrong with the facts as usual. With the OP's credentials I assume the relevant jobs qualify as a specialist:

http://www.migri.fi/working_in_finland/ ... specialist

"If you are applying for a residence permit in Finland, you have the right to work as a specialist even before the permit is granted. The requirement is that you are staying in the country legally (you have a valid visa or you do not need one). However, your right to work terminates after three months, at the latest, and sooner, if your visa expires sooner. "

GermanInHelsinki wrote: Anyone offering you a job in Finland would of course have to keep it open for you for 4-5 months until you got a decision (positive or negative) on your Residence Permit application for this job. This is of course the main extra benefit expats usually ask for.

For specialists this does not apply:

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/2 ... 40301#L1P3

"6 a) muulla oleskeluluvalla ansiotyötä varten ulkomaalaiselle ansiotyötä varten myönnettävää oleskelulupaa, joka myönnetään ilman edeltävää työ- ja elinkeinotoimiston osapäätöstä;"

ErinM wrote: I know it will be troublesome for employers in Finland to offer me a job ( with all that job offer, visa supporting, etc...) hence I will not ask for any expat benefit, or any extra benefit that expat normally ask, but to have just normal paid rate that you pay to your employee.

Yes this is realistic. I think jobs are few and between for which employers want to lure expats with extra benefits. Finland in general does not really have much of a culture of extra benefits. This is due to the fact that the legislation mandates most of the basics stuff related to for example medical care and pensions (in contrast to, for example, the US where employers have more freedom).

rinso · Post by **rinso** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:30 pm

coz if in my case, I am able to ask for housing, transportation, etc...as extra benefit,

many expats are so glad if they can find a job, any job, that they are willing to work below their educational level and for minimum wages.

cors187 · Post by **cors187** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:34 am

ErinM wrote:Hi,

Theres a false economy of employment opportunities here.
Every summer there is untold numbers of students looking for work, most have relevant education(including foreign students), they will work for low salary to get experience.
4 students for the summer = 1 years employment.

Then you have the Finnish standard-which is if you cant find a job go study some more. Theres extra job seekers in that group that chase part time work(like highly educated mothers whose kids are at school during the day).

Then you have the horde of EU randoms, some of these guys have experience and qualifications.

It all adds upto =(which employee should i choose)
Answer-the one who can offer the company a (1)better future and make the company (2)more money.
If any wannabe can answer yes to both those questions , then work is like a salad bar and it doesnt matter which part of the world you live in .

Language is considered a challenge , but not a problem if you can answer yes to both 1&2
If your below par for 1&2 , then by definition ,language is a problem!

007 · Post by **007** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:12 am

it's a suicide career-wise to move here............ unless you have jobs in hand and low ambition in life, welcome!
................................................................................................................

GermanInHelsinki · Post by **GermanInHelsinki** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:23 pm

Betelgeuse is of course wrong as usual when claiming that a Masters degree would be enough for being considered a specialist. Betelgeuse does of course fail to mention that while a Masters degree is required for being considered to be a specialist, it is not sufficient. If the job offer does also allow people without a Masters degree to apply, or if the salary is not above average, you are of course not considered to be a specialist and the decision will of course be negative.

Betelgeuse does of course fail to mention that the processing time when applying for a business visa for working as a specialist is of course higher than the average time for a decision on a specialist Residence Permit.

Erin is of course wrong when expecting to have the right of getting any transportation, housing or relocation benefits, and that it would be a favour if he won't ask for that. While in some cases a company might offer something, it is of course not the duty of the company to take care of the hired person moving to Finland or finding accomodation in Finland.

cors187 · Post by **cors187** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 4:13 pm

GermanInHelsinki wrote: While in some cases a company might offer something, it is of course not the duty of the company to take care of the hired person moving to Finland or finding accomodation in Finland.

Ofcourse i need to play with you , but only gently!

Actually there is some interest in these benefits, im hearing of these things happening more and more.
Maybe there is some positive tax write-offs in these systems.

betelgeuse · Post by **betelgeuse** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:47 am

GermanInHelsinki wrote:Betelgeuse is of course wrong as usual when claiming that a Masters degree would be enough for being considered a specialist.

I have not claimed this. My assessment was based on all the information available. Not just possessing a Master's degree.

GermanInHelsinki wrote: If the job offer does also allow people without a Masters degree to apply, or if the salary is not above average, you are of course not considered to be a specialist and the decision will of course be negative.

If there's a good match between an employer and the OP, the employer can make sure to draft the job descriptions so that it qualifies as a specialist. Yest not every possible job that I can think of for the OP qualifies as a specialist. However, if I had a position open that I would consider the OP for, it would definitely qualify as a specialist.

GermanInHelsinki wrote: Betelgeuse does of course fail to mention that the processing time when applying for a business visa for working as a specialist is of course higher than the average time for a decision on a specialist Residence Permit.

The citizenship of the OP is unknown which means that we do not know whether a visa is required. What do you base your decision for the processing time?

http://www.finland.org.vn/public/defaul ... deid=35302

The embassy of Finland in Hanoi:

"Hakemuksen käsittelyaika on noin kaksi viikkoa. Edustusto ei voi nopeuttaa käsittelyä."

http://www.migri.fi/asiointi/kasittelya ... ittelyajat

migri:

"Erityisasiantuntija 14"

On top of this it takes time to mail the permit. Based on this information I would say it's faster to get the visa. However, for both the period is so short, that it doesn't really matter that much.

GermanInHelsinki · Post by **GermanInHelsinki** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:38 am

Betelgeuse is of course wrong as usual when claiming that an MBA from a university in Vietnam noone in Finland has ever heard of combined with no knowledge of Finnish language or culture would get more than a junior position in Finland - realistically of course not even that.

The only realistic assumption based on the information given is of course that Erin is Vietnamese citizen only.

Talking about assumptions, it would of course be very relevant where his sister is studying. Outside the Helsinki metropolitan area his chances of finding a job are of course even worse.

Hämeen Hitain · Post by **Hämeen Hitain** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:58 pm

ErinM wrote: My sister is moving to Finland to study, and it will be so cruel if I turn her study passion/future career down - so I have decided to come with her to Finland as supporting.

That is quite unusual in Finland. Why not send money to her from where ever you can find work?

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:48 pm

Well, the difference is, your sister will have a "reason" to come to Finland studying. You don't. Now you must ask yoursel what extraordinary talent you have that nobody local or in the EU is willing or able to do?
Clean toilets? Yes, probably for that you actually can get a work permit, and they definitely won't provide you with "benefits"...

ram316 · Post by **ram316** » Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:37 pm

One thing: If you're not EU, the employer may need to show that they were unable to fill the job with an EU citizen (= more paperwork, making non-EU less desirable as employees). I think maybe you're getting a sense of why you're unlikely to get any job here without fluent Finnish unless your skillset is so rare that filling it with a Finn is impossible.

Is it also applicable for non-EU citizen who possess Finland RP card with unlimited right to work?

betelgeuse · Post by **betelgeuse** » Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:14 pm

ram316 wrote:
One thing: If you're not EU, the employer may need to show that they were unable to fill the job with an EU citizen (= more paperwork, making non-EU less desirable as employees). I think maybe you're getting a sense of why you're unlikely to get any job here without fluent Finnish unless your skillset is so rare that filling it with a Finn is impossible.

Is it also applicable for non-EU citizen who possess Finland RP card with unlimited right to work?

It's not.

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