Roommate from hell... question about some rights.

[justaguy]

I had been living with my roommate for a few months before I went on holiday to my home country.
As it stood the contract was drawn out as follows: I rent the apartment directly from my landlord as a 'vuokralainen' and I sub-rent one of the rooms out as/to an alivuokralainen.
In addition to the standard legal mumbo-jumbo/requirements etc. there are only 2 rules (which I think are standard anyway).
1. You may not rent the room out to anyone else, as you are an alivuokralainen (sub-tenant) and thus you don't have the right.
2. You may not leave the premises before the end of the fixed-term contract. Otherwise the deposit will be taken.

So I went overseas for 2½ months, and well I didn't get much time to meet this person and live with them. However it seemed they were responsible enough, 23, had a job and were studying etc. From the times we hung out, I felt I could pretty much trust them.
Skipping the fact that they were late with rent every single month and sometimes didn't send their share of internet, left the toilet running continuously for 3 days because the button got stuck and didn't tell the talonmies or me, plus breaking my plates and glasses and scratching my beautiful ceramic pan to death + a multitude of other things in the short time that I did live with them before I went overseas.

This happened..

I had been overseas for a month or so, and I had MY room rented out to a friend of mine. So it was the first, (terrible) roommate in 1 room and my mate in the other (mine).
So the terrible roommate decides they want to move out before the end of contract. They don't tell me, and they just decide to leave. However, what this idiot (sorry) decided they would do, is breach contract in pretty much every way possible.
They decided they would rent the room out to the OTHER person renting the MY room so that when they are supposed to move out, they instead just take the other room. Obviously I don't need to remind that they did not have this right and this is NOT what I had discussed with my friend.

So for some crazy reason, my mate agreed to this, thinking that the bad roommate had my permission or something and/or that I would be okay with it. Because my friend didn't have a bank account he just gave this person cash, after being told they would forward the rent payment to my bank account. (Which my mate thought would be easier for me than giving me cash late after I got back).

So long(er)- story short. This person moved out 1½ months early, took my friend's money and didn't pay ME the rent.
Now this is why we have deposits and I did have a 1 month deposit to pay for this, which I took when my friend had told me what had happened. After which I was obviously furious and dumbfounded how all this happened behind my back.
I told my mate that his contract wasn't valid, that she hadn't paid the rent to me and that he'd stupidly lost his cash without getting a written receipt of some kind.

So after trying to contact the idiot (the bad roommate one) before I had returned to Finland, in order to find out what the heck was going on. As well as to get them to pay the rent. They end up blocking me from Facebook etc. and don't return my calls or texts. After some weeks of talking to my mate, and silence from the other roommate. I get back to Finland. To find that half their things are still in the bloody room... as my 'friend' (now inverted commas) tells me that the other person will be back to pick up those things sometime and that they will contact (my 'friend') to find out a time that he can open the door so they can get them.

But I will have none of that !"#¤%.

I am 99% sure under Finnish law, that if you leave an apartment with anything in it, you surrender ownership of whatever those items are.
So basically, in point. I am here to ask can I sell those things that they left behind. They are a quite many things, and I want to sell them all in some sort of garage sale to make up for the fact that she beached contract and caused me a lot of issues and the deposit didn't cover some of the damages to my belongings anyway. I don't care whether or not people on this forum think that is 'fair' or not, I care that is it legal or not. I currently am overseas AGAIN, on work this time but only for 10 days, and I don't have much time to work out the details. (I was only back in Finland to see the apartment for 2 days) I just want to know if, when I get back I can sell that stuff.

So... TL;DR version.

1. One of my roommates who was sub-renting (alivuokralainen) breached contract in multiple ways, moved out 1½ months early within a fixed-term contract. Didn't pay the last month of rent and required me to take the deposit to pay for it. Plus they left a bunch of things still in the room that they were renting.
2. Can I simply sell those things as they have surrendered ownership of them? That roommate still technically has a contract that states that for this month their contract continues but they have since moved out before the end of the fixed-term. i.e. it's no longer valid anymore.
3. Do I obviously have to make aware to the talonmies or something that they have moved out and to not let them into the apartment again under some lie that they had simply forgotten their key or something?

Thanks for understanding.
P.S. Next time I take 2 months deposit minimum... Lesson learned.

[betelgeuse]

1. One of my roommates who was sub-renting (alivuokralainen) breached contract in multiple ways, moved out 1½ months early within a fixed-term contract. Didn't pay the last month of rent and required me to take the deposit to pay for it. Plus they left a bunch of things still in the room that they were renting.

They are allowed to move out early as long as they pay rent until the end. Since there's no contract otherwise they are liable to pay until the end of the contract.

2. Can I simply sell those things as they have surrendered ownership of them? That roommate still technically has a contract that states that for this month their contract continues but they have since moved out before the end of the fixed-term. i.e. it's no longer valid anymore.

No. Finnish law does not provide transfer of ownership when a lease ends. It's actually the other way that you will be doing a crime if you touch that stuff. Once the lease is up you will have to call the authorities to take that stuff away. Merely moving out does not terminate the contract. Neither does neglecting to pay rent.

3. Do I obviously have to make aware to the talonmies or something that they have moved out and to not let them into the apartment again under some lie that they had simply forgotten their key or something?

No. You can't obstruct their entry to the apartment before the end of the fixed term lease.

I suggest you pay the 88 euro membership fee to the Finnish Landlord's association and consult their lawyer:

http://vuokranantajat.fi

Here's some tips to avoid unresponsible tenants. Did you check their negative credit history? You are by allowed to do it when renting. It costs 9,90 from bisnode (tax deductible). 9 euros for members of the association.

You should collect all damages and missing payments through the court if their history is currently clean. This will cause a mark for future landlords. If they are marked as "without assets" then you need to consider whether it's worth it.

[justaguy]

No. Finnish law does not provide transfer of ownership when a lease ends. It's actually the other way that you will be doing a crime if you touch that stuff. Once the lease is up you will have to call the authorities to take that stuff away. Merely moving out does not terminate the contract. Neither does neglecting to pay rent.

This sounds ridiculous. Under these terms one could simply move out months early, and simply leave everything they own there with the owner/head tenant unable to move the stuff and clear the room for someone else to use... even if they hadn't paid the remaining rent. This doesn't seem right at all..
That absolutely crazy. So basically I have no rights at all, one way or another I don't care if I am allowed to sell the stuff or not, or simply remove it from the apartment. But WHY must I have to do this at my own expense if the tenant breaches contract? Are you also saying that even though they moved out BEFORE the end of the fixed-term contract, that I am not allowed the free up the room for someone else? The contract is a LEGAL document that this person broke. So why does it sound like I get no rights in the matter what-so-ever?

Did you check their negative credit history? You are by allowed to do it when renting. It costs 9,90 from bisnode (tax deductible). 9 euros for members of the association.

No I didn't because I didn't know how. Also even though they are a Finnish citizen they have lived overseas since the age of 9 or something so I assumed they would have no record of bad credit. Also no bad credit rating isn't exactly a direct indication whether or not someone is trustworthy.

Also what do you mean by I have to get the 'authorities' to move their stuff? Obviously at my expense, but who exactly are the 'authorities'?
All in all none of this really sounds like legitimate information, and that there is a lot you're leaving out here. As the head tenant I have to have some rights here and there has to be a flip-side to this coin. Their room is not a personal storage that you cannot pay for, where I am not legally allowed to remove whatever is 'left' there.

[betelgeuse]

This sounds ridiculous. Under these terms one could simply move out months early, and simply leave everything they own there with the owner/head tenant unable to move the stuff and clear the room for someone else to use... even if they hadn't paid the remaining rent. This doesn't seem right at all..

They didn't break the contract by moving out early. They did break the contract by not paying. However, to immediately terminate (purkaa) the lease, you need to have two months of unpaid rent and use the court system if they don't comply on their own after you verifiably give a notice of rescission (purkamisilmoitus):

https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/ ... 0481#L8P66

That absolutely crazy. So basically I have no rights at all, one way or another I don't care if I am allowed to sell the stuff or not, or simply remove it from the apartment. But WHY must I have to do this at my own expense if the tenant breaches contract?

You don't do it at your own expense. All expenses you can collect from the tenant if they have the means to pay (most likely through the court system). You have to understand that the legislation balances sanctity of the home vs. landlord's financial interests. Often this tilts toward the tenant.

Are you also saying that even though they moved out BEFORE the end of the fixed-term contract, that I am not allowed the free up the room for someone else? The contract is a LEGAL document that this person broke. So why does it sound like I get no rights in the matter what-so-ever?

You do have rights but they are less than you seem to have expected. See before about rescission.

Also what do you mean by I have to get the 'authorities' to move their stuff? Obviously at my expense, but who exactly are the 'authorities'?

You evict them through the courts and then enforcement will take care of clearing the room.

http://www.oikeus.fi/ulosotto/en/index.html

This does not happen at your expense. You can collect rent through the courts as long their stuff is in there:

https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/ ... 0481#L4P34

This unofficial translation (can lack behind in amendments) might be a useful read:

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/kaannokset ... 950481.pdf

All in all none of this really sounds like legitimate information, and that there is a lot you're leaving out here. As the head tenant I have to have some rights here and there has to be a flip-side to this coin. Their room is not a personal storage that you cannot pay for, where I am not legally allowed to remove whatever is 'left' there.

If you don't trust information, when it doesn't agree with your expectations, then you should rather get professional help. As I pointed out, it's not that expensive. You will be made whole in the end as long the system can collect from the tenant.

[betelgeuse]

You evict them through the courts and then enforcement will take care of clearing the room.

http://www.oikeus.fi/ulosotto/en/index.html

If the stuff doesn't have value, they might just give you the permission to remove it.

[justaguy]

Thank you for providing a lot of information, I appreciate it. It looks like I have a lot to read. I'll get onto that, and also pay the fee to join that association.
At least it seems more fair now. I understand that the tenant should have more rights than some greedy landlord, I just don't think it's obviously fair otherwise for me to suffer at their lack of honesty and keeping contract but it doesn't seem like I will have to.

Thanks again.

At this point it seems that it would be best that I can move their stuff downstairs into protective storage. I think I have some space... I can lock the storage, and try to make contact with them to allow them to come and get their stuff back. Otherwise it's the same thing as it is still currently 'locked' behind my door but then it is in the way of me being able to rent the room out fairly... At least then I get to keep them out of the apartment and they get their stuff back.

However in the unlikely event (or I dunno at this point) that they do not come back to get the stuff? When can I get rid it at my discretion? Is there a time period of a month or something that I can give them, after which I can take matters into my own hands?

I suppose I'll find the answer via one of those links.

[betelgeuse]

However in the unlikely event (or I dunno at this point) that they do not come back to get the stuff? When can I get rid it at my discretion? Is there a time period of a month or something that I can give them, after which I can take matters into my own hands?

There are only two ways to legally move stuff from tenant controlled areas. First is that they remove their stuff on their own when the contract has been terminated. The second is by the authorities through eviction. You can never take matters into your own hands if you don't want to risk criminal liability.

[justaguy]

Ok. However on the .pdf document you linked me. It states in the case of fixed-term contracts.

This would mean that technically, after the contract has expired if there is still items left in the apartment after the tenant has had the fair, previously agreed upon (and if not mutually changed and re-agreed upon by both parties) day in which they can remove their things. That they have their ownership surrendered or at least the belongings can be removed by the tenant/owner?

HAPTER 9
Removal
Section 68
Removal date after termination
The removal date shall be the next working day following the lease’s date of
termination. The tenant shall vacate half of the apartment for the lessor’s use on the
removal date and shall surrender the entire apartment to the lessor on the following day.

Section 69
Deferral of the removal date
The removal date stated in a fixed
-
term lease cannot be deferred.

Surely for christ's sake, you can't expect anyone to hold your belongings AFTER the date in which your contract is over/terminated. In that case whilst the tenant/owner may not be able to sell, destroy or withhold the ability to get the other person's belongings, they are allowed to move them out of the apartment into something like the hallway. I remember one such case where a friend of mine was staying at his former friend's apartment and due to not having a valid contract any longer they moved his belongings into the hallway (with no supervision, and where anyone could steal them) apparently this was not a crime because the contract was no longer valid. He had failed to get them on the day that he had to move out, and was only available the next day. He arrived to find all of his things in the public hallway and when he called the police they said that the owner had broken no laws.

[betelgeuse]

This would mean that technically, after the contract has expired if there is still items left in the apartment after the tenant has had the fair, previously agreed upon (and if not mutually changed and re-agreed upon by both parties) day in which they can remove their things. That they have their ownership surrendered or at least the belongings can be removed by the tenant/owner?

Sections 68 and 69 only control timing. They have no effect on ownership of belongings when the timing is not respected.

Surely for christ's sake, you can't expect anyone to hold your belongings AFTER the date in which your contract is over/terminated

What if you had an accident right before you had to move and were in the hospital unconscious? Would you want your landlord moving/selling your stuff?

In that case whilst the tenant/owner may not be able to sell, destroy or withhold the ability to get the other person's belongings, they are allowed to move them out of the apartment into something like the hallway. I remember one such case where a friend of mine was staying at his former friend's apartment and due to not having a valid contract any longer they moved his belongings into the hallway (with no supervision, and where anyone could steal them) apparently this was not a crime because the contract was no longer valid. He had failed to get them on the day that he had to move out, and was only available the next day. He arrived to find all of his things in the public hallway and when he called the police they said that the owner had broken no laws.

I can't find a basis for the above. I would consult association lawyers any way over trusting an individual policeman.

[justaguy]

Fair enough. I'll consult a professional. Either way it doesn't seem to be really clear enough in my opinion. There should be a section outlined with regards to belongings. I can't seem to find one after a few quick glances but I'll read the material tonight.

[FinnGuyHelsinki]

Fair enough. I'll consult a professional. Either way it doesn't seem to be really clear enough in my opinion. There should be a section outlined with regards to belongings. I can't seem to find one after a few quick glances but I'll read the material tonight.

It is very clear in the sense that in general the ownership does not change. If I left a pair of socks at your apartment, just by having visited there, they are still my socks. Another matter of course is whether there would be any legal ramifications should you just throw them away, but their ownership will remain with me nevertheless.